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Subject: 2 things I've been doing wrong 2 player dungeon crawl ! Alot better now. rss

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Greg
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I don't know if anyone else has made these mistakes but they made a huge difference to difficulty.

1. When revealing encounters from scene 2 on, the pulled secondary encounter deck cards up to dragonfire level counts towards the scene. We were doing them in addition to the scene encounters! Eg: for scene 2 it's number of characters +1 ( 3 for 2 player ) so if dragonfire level is 1 , youd get one encounter from secondary deck and 2 from primary.

2.when using the -2 df level tokens, we weren't treating them like a dragonfire card whereby when completing a scene , you don't increase the df level ( because you bury the card ). So if you beat scene 1 after both players have had two turns, you're still at DF level -1.

Liking the game more and more !!
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B C Z
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Gregolution wrote:
2.when using the -2 df level tokens, we weren't treating them like a dragonfire card whereby when completing a scene , you don't increase the df level ( because you bury the card ). So if you beat scene 1 after both players have had two turns, you're still at DF level -1.


This is not correct, based on how Shadowrun Crossfire handled it and how the rulebook for Dragonfire present it.

-1 DF tokens are not cards.

You can remove them from the deck if there is still one there, but you do not put them back if you complete a Scene with no revealed DF card.

p2:
Quote:
At the end of the round, discard the face-up Dragonfire card on
top of that deck (if any); if a card is discarded, the Dragonfire level
increases by 1.

Note the 'if any'. If there is no card, there is no discarding.

Quote:
At the end of any player’s turn, if all encounters have been defeated,
the round immediately ends—that Scene has been completed.
Bury the revealed Dragonfire card by placing it on the bottom
of that deck; it doesn’t increase the Dragonfire level

If there isn't a revealed DF card, it cannot be buried. This *also* doesn't add to the DFL.

p5, for 2p:
Quote:
Additionally, the Dragonfire level starts at –2, meaning that you play two rounds before the first Dragonfire card is revealed.


and for 3p:
Quote:
Additionally, the Dragonfire level starts at –1, meaning that you
play one round before the first Dragonfire card is revealed.




Taken all together, 2p get exactly two rounds (and 3p get exactly one round) of not revealing a DF card. Completing Scenes does not change the number of rounds where you don't reveal a Dragonfire Card.
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Michael Kindt Dalzen
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byronczimmer wrote:

Taken all together, 2p get exactly two rounds (and 3p get exactly one round) of not revealing a DF card. Completing Scenes does not change the number of rounds where you don't reveal a Dragonfire Card.


Totally agree with your parsing of the rules here.

That said, in my last solo/2 character adventure, I had to decide whether to end a scene immediately while on my second -1 Token or hold the scene out for one more Round, so I could end it while the first Dragonfire card was revealed. I thought it could help me bury an extra Dragonfire card if I stalled for a turn.

Ultimately, I opted to end the scene immediately. I decided avoiding the certain damage my Ranger would have taken was better than getting an extra Dragonfire card burned with unknown long term consequences.
 
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Chris Lawson
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Gregolution wrote:
-2 df level tokens

byronczimmer wrote:
-1 DF tokens are not cards

daskindt wrote:
second -1 Token

There's been talk of various Dragonfire Tokens in this thread.

As far as I can see, there's no mention of such things as Dragonfire tokens in the Dragonfire rulebook. I assume people mean the +1 / -1 black tokens that come with the game (which I must say that the rulebook fails to mention what these are used for and what they are called).

Does SR Crossfire use tokens in some way similar to that being discussed? I certainly haven't come across anything in DF that suggests you place the -1 Tokens on top of the DF deck as a reminder not to draw cards (if that is indeed what's being done).
 
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Greg
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaarg!

Ok so I the -1 tokens for df level decrease every time it's the party leaders turn.

I thought it would work like the DragonFire cards. Thanks for clarifying anyway.

At least I'm not adding x secondary encounters equal to DF level before adding Num characters + scene as well. That really made scene 3 tough!
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Etienne Koekemoer
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Gregolution wrote:
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaarg!

Ok so I the -1 tokens for df level decrease every time it's the party leaders turn.

I thought it would work like the DragonFire cards. Thanks for clarifying anyway.

At least I'm not adding x secondary encounters equal to DF level before adding Num characters + scene as well. That really made scene 3 tough!


Since it is not in the rulebook, this is also how I thought it would work. Ugh, this game is confusing sometimes! Wish the rules could be a bit more clear!
 
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Chris Lawson
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Gregolution wrote:
Ok so I the -1 tokens for df level decrease every time it's the party leaders turn.

I still don't understand where these -1 DF Tokens come from (i.e. where the idea comes from to use tokens in this way)?

The only mention in the Rulebook of a Dragonfire Token is when it refers to the large round token that features the Dragon from the box art on both sides. This token is only used as the first player marker (and as a randomizer).
 
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toeknee n
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xris wrote:
Gregolution wrote:
Ok so I the -1 tokens for df level decrease every time it's the party leaders turn.

I still don't understand where these -1 DF Tokens come from (i.e. where the idea comes from to use tokens in this way)?

The only mention in the Rulebook of a Dragonfire Token is when it refers to the large round token that features the Dragon from the box art on both sides. This token is only used as the first player marker (and as a randomizer).


Yaw, unfortunately, the rule book doens't mention the other tokens (the +1/-1 and the ampersand, i.e. &, symbol red dragon one). We use the +1/-1 to track temporary attack strength increases/decreases on encounters. We use the ampersand red dragon one to cover the attack strength if it can't attack and to track the negative Dragonfire levels by placing them on top of the Dragonfire deck and then removing one each round. I believe I saw the ampersand symbols used in this way in one of the videos with a designer explaining the game. In the Shadowrun Crossfire playthroughs with the designers, they use one of the generic Crossfire tokens to also track "negative" Crossfire levels.

Edit: Actually pg. 19 of the rules has an example using both of the above tokens during the play cards phase.
 
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Chris Lawson
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DoctaWho wrote:
Edit: Actually pg. 19 of the rules has an example using both of the above tokens during the play cards phase.

Yes. These tokens are not even named in the set-up picture on page 6, nor on page 32 along with most of the other tokens.

It seems the red ampersand is called a generic token (end of page 7 and on the examples on page 19/20) and is suggested to be used to cover either the gold value or attack strength of an encounter.

As you say, the +1 / -1 tokens seems to be only mentioned in the examples on page 19.

Seems to be a case that the designers know what to use them for but forgot to tell the players
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Greg
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xris wrote:
Gregolution wrote:
Ok so I the -1 tokens for df level decrease every time it's the party leaders turn.

I still don't understand where these -1 DF Tokens come from (i.e. where the idea comes from to use tokens in this way)?

The only mention in the Rulebook of a Dragonfire Token is when it refers to the large round token that features the Dragon from the box art on both sides. This token is only used as the first player marker (and as a randomizer).


Are the tokens significant? In this context I'm only referring to -2 df level in 2 player and how it works mechanically. Whether you use tokens to track or not isn't that important really. They're just reminders
 
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B C Z
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Tokens are provided for whatever you want to use them for.

In SRCF, we used the round generic tokens as reminders of how many rounds we had left due to it being a 2p game. We do the same thing now in DF.

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