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Subject: Monster NOT Moving? rss

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Chillbo Camron

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I know there are a ton of these posts, but, I can't seem to find the needle in the haystack.

If a Monster has a Focus but cannot 'reach' it to Attack it with its Move, does it Move closer to that Focus, anyway?
Or does it stay where it is?

 
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Michael T.
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Chillbogames wrote:
I know there are a ton of these posts, but, I can't seem to find the needle in the haystack.

If a Monster has a Focus but cannot 'reach' it to Attack it with its Move, does it Move closer to that Focus, anyway?
Or does it stay where it is?



Page 30:
Quote:
Even if a monster cannot move into atack range, it will stll use its movement to get as close as possible to its focus.
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Grey Fox
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If it cannot reach because it doesn't have enough movement points, he moves as close as possible.

If it cannot reach because there's no available route, he stays put.
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Liam Brennan
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If a monster has 'move' listed on it's card it will use its full movement to move as close as possible to it's focus, even if it can't reach it on that turn.
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al Cann
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CodenameGreyFox wrote:
If it cannot reach because it doesn't have enough movement points, he moves as close as possible.

If it cannot reach because there's no available route, he stays put.


True ... in addition, if the space(s) from which the monster would attack its focused enemy is/are occupied, then the monster will stay put.
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Chris Ferejohn
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lbrennan85 wrote:
If a monster has 'move' listed on it's card it will use its full movement to move as close as possible to it's focus, even if it can't reach it on that turn.


Well, unless it has a ranged attack, in which case it will move as close as possible to a hex where it can attack the target, even if it can't move.
 
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Liam Brennan
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cferejohn wrote:
[...] it will move as close as possible to a hex where it can attack the target, even if it can't move.


Not sure I get your last sentence there dude... It will move even if it can't move? Did you mean 'even if it can't attack'? Good point RE ranged attackers, if they're already in a hex that enables them to attack their focus they will of course stay put and simply attack.
 
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Jay Johnson
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cferejohn wrote:
lbrennan85 wrote:
If a monster has 'move' listed on it's card it will use its full movement to move as close as possible to it's focus, even if it can't reach it on that turn.


Well, unless it has a ranged attack, in which case it will move as close as possible to a hex where it can attack the target, even if it can't move.

only if there is a valid open hex somewhere, with a viable path to it (even if it would require more movement than the monster has this turn).
If there is no such open hex, the monster isn't going to move, regardless of whether they have a ranged or melee attack.
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Issac approved, Monster Movement Flowchart v6:

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/144945/gloomhaven-enemy-f...

Monsters only consider their current turn.

From the flowchart:
Is there a valid path (with infinite movement) to at least
one unoccupied hex from which to perform an attack on
an enemy with the range
the monster has this turn?

No?

Monster has no Focus and does not move

In your example above, the monster would not move.
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Swampy Crocker
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silentspoon wrote:
Issac approved, Monster Movement Flowchart v6:

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/144945/gloomhaven-enemy-f...

Monsters only consider their current turn.

From the flowchart:
Is there a valid path (with infinite movement) to at least
one unoccupied hex from which to perform an attack on
an enemy with the range
the monster has this turn?

No?

Monster has no Focus and does not move

In your example above, the monster would not move.

The following is a way to abuse this. I did not do it intentionally,but based on my understanding of the ruling, this works and I hope that I do not have another opportunity.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
In the second scenario (vs the bandit commander with the sarcophagi, you can stick the mindthief or any summoner) between a sarcophagus and the wall. If you then summon a rat swarm (or any summon), you can have just one monster able to attack. Obviously, funneling monsters is a good strategy,
but this leaves you in a position to just sit there and melee attack with no one to attack your back. The same could easily be done with two players (but you would rather have as many of them attacking as possible). It seemed cheap when I did it, and I wouldn't do it again, but I was jammed in that spot pretty well. The other characters were able to just focus on the bandit commander while the living corpses were stuck for 3-4 rounds.
 
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Moose Detective
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silentspoon wrote:
Issac approved, Monster Movement Flowchart v6:

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/144945/gloomhaven-enemy-f...

Monsters only consider their current turn.

From the flowchart:
Is there a valid path (with infinite movement) to at least
one unoccupied hex from which to perform an attack on
an enemy with the range
the monster has this turn?

No?

Monster has no Focus and does not move

In your example above, the monster would not move.


Is it just me or does this reply contradict itself. The OP says the monser has a focus, the flowchart says if it has focus it will move closer, your reply says focus uses infinite movement...but you still end up with the monster not moving.

 
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Darren Nakamura
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I think the confusion is in the OP's use of the vague/imprecise phrase "but cannot 'reach' it."

If the monster has a focus, then this must mean the monster cannot get to an unoccupied space where it can attack this turn (due to not having enough movement points). In that case it still moves.

The way I think silentspoon interpreted it is that the monster has no valid path (with infinite movement) to get to an unoccupied space where it can attack, therefore the OP is wrong and it doesn't actually have a focus. In that case, it does not move.
 
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silentspoon wrote:
Issac approved, Monster Movement Flowchart v6:

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/144945/gloomhaven-enemy-f...

Monsters only consider their current turn.

From the flowchart:
Is there a valid path (with infinite movement) to at least
one unoccupied hex from which to perform an attack on
an enemy with the range
the monster has this turn?

No?

Monster has no Focus and does not move

In your example above, the monster would not move.


Yep. People keep thinking it's the monster that's the focus of the move. It's really the closest hex at which you can attack the character from. If there aren't any available hexes to attack a character from, then it has no focus, and won't move.

So if there's a ton of melee monsters in room A, all the heroes in room B except for a single invisible hero standing in the only connecting hex between the rooms, then none of the monsters will move because they don't have any focus(hex to attack a character from).
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For monsters with an initiative card reading movement and attack (melee):

Monster 1 will attack the hero.
Monster 2 will move to "2" and attack the hero.
Monster 3 will not move and will not attack.
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Fito R
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silentspoon wrote:


For monsters with an initiative card reading movement and attack (melee):

Monster 1 will attack the hero.
Monster 2 will move to "2" and attack the hero.
Monster 3 will not move and will not attack.
False, in this case the monster marked three would move to the space previously occupied by monster 2. Monsters move as close as possible to their focus, even if they can't reach them this turn, as long as they finish their movement closer to their focus.
 
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Moose Detective
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Joou wrote:
silentspoon wrote:


For monsters with an initiative card reading movement and attack (melee):

Monster 1 will attack the hero.
Monster 2 will move to "2" and attack the hero.
Monster 3 will not move and will not attack.
False, in this case the monster marked three would move to the space previously occupied by monster 2. Monsters move as close as possible to their focus, even if they can't reach them this turn, as long as they finish their movement closer to their focus.


They move closer if the dont have enough movement to get to an attacking hex, they dont move if there is no attacking hex.

if they had movement1 and either monster 1 or 2 wasnt on the table, 3 would move one step closer, but as shown, he has no place to get to so he doesnt move.
 
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Alaska
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Joou wrote:

False, in this case the monster marked three would move to the space previously occupied by monster 2. Monsters move as close as possible to their focus, even if they can't reach them this turn, as long as they finish their movement closer to their focus.

Monster 3 will not move.

Page 30:
Even if a monster cannot move into attack range, it will still get as close as possible to its focus.

FAQ:
I'm just confused about focus. Can you explain it?
...
Note that there may be some cases where a monster can't find a focus at all. In order to obtain focus on an enemy, there must be an unblocked path to an open hex where it could eventually move to and target the enemy. If an enemy can't find a focus, it doesn't move or attack on its turn and just performs any other abilities written on its card.


Isaac approved flow chart:
Is there a valid path (with infinite movement) to at least one unoccupied hex from which to perform an attack on an enemy with the range the monster has this turn? No? Monster has no Focus and does not move.

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M H
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I was under the impression that a ranged attackers will move as clase as necessary to get within range and/or stay put if already within range to attack and also in line of site
 
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Jay Johnson
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Neemo wrote:
I was under the impression that a ranged attackers will move as clase as necessary to get within range and/or stay put if already within range to attack and also in line of site

This is true, if there is an unblocked path to an open hex that will put them in range (even if they don't have enough movement to get to that hex).

If they are already in range, they will stay put, unless their attack would be at a disadvantage, in which case they would step back (if possible) in order to attack without disadvantage.

However, if there is not an open hex that puts them within their attack range of a target and a clear path for them to get to it (no matter the distance), then there is no target for them to focus on and they will not move.
 
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Trond Roaas
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Joou wrote:
False, in this case the monster marked three would move to the space previously occupied by monster 2. Monsters move as close as possible to their focus, even if they can't reach them this turn, as long as they finish their movement closer to their focus.

The monsters do not try to move closer to the Focus. They try to move closer to a hex where they can attack the Focus.
When both 1 and 2 are standing right next to the character, there is no hex monster 3 can go to to attack the character, and so it cannot find a focus, and does not move.
 
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Preston Thomas
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So, will monsters walk through traps to reach their focus, or do traps count as obstacles to them and block their path, leading to no focus?
 
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Page 31 describes this in detail. In short, monsters will move through so called negative hexes if it is the only option, and even then, they will always choose the path with the least number of negative hexes.
 
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Fito R
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Huh, guess I learned something new today. Thanks for pointing that out!
 
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Chillbo Camron

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CodenameGreyFox wrote:
If it cannot reach because it doesn't have enough movement points, he moves as close as possible.

If it cannot reach because there's no available route, he stays put.


This has received a lot of thumbs up so I'm assuming it's correct. But when I read through the additional posts and a flowchart approved by Isaac, it is telling me that the monsters will not move if it can't reach a focus. Now I am more confused than ever!
 
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Fox's explanation is correct, but due to his use of the word "reach", it will likely only make sense to people who already understand the rules.

His explanation matches my rule quotes above.

Fox is saying:
If the monster cannot reach an open space from which to attack, but an open space is available, the monster will move as close as possible.

If the monster cannot reach an open space from which to attack, because no such space exists (unoccupied), the monster will not move.


Hazards aside, an over-simplified way to think of focus is:
Using your finger as a proxy, can you touch an empty hex that would allow the monster to perform an attack right now? No? Then there isn't a clear path, and the monster will not move. If you can touch a hex that would allow an attack, the monster will move (governed by its initiative card) along the shortest path to that empty hex, no matter how far away the monster is.
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