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Mythic Battles: Pantheon» Forums » Strategy

Subject: How to use Centaurs & Athena rss

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Sammaell NA
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So far, I've only received the base game and have played numerous 2v2 skirmishes, but have not played any Free-for-All or 1v1. All the units in the base set seem to be balanced relative to their RP costs except for the Centaurs and Athena. Obviously, this could just be an issue of not utilizing either of those units correctly, but they appear weaker than their base-game counterparts so far.

So, I would very much appreciate constructive feedback regarding strategy on how to use them or why they would be a useful early draft pick.

1) The Centaurs - They seem awful for any role.
- They have a move of 2, so one would think they would be good at grabbing omphalos. Most of the time this is too risky for them. They only have 2-health and a low defense, they can't move/run to any location which is near an enemy as almost any other unit can obliterate both with an attack. The Infernal Hounds are much better at this than the Centaurs.
- They have Guard, so perhaps they are useful guarding other units. Yeah, again because of 2-health and low defense they're not particularly good at this. They can prevent a single-target attack from landing on a friendly unit (but probably only once, because let's be honest they will be wiped out), but any Area-Effect or Multi-target attacks will kill them off first and then subsequent portions of the same attack can easily target the friendly unit you wanted to Guard. All three other troops in the base game are significantly better at Guarding other units.
- So surely they make up for all this by being amazing at attacking (for a troop). Well, no, not really. They do have range 1 (Yay!), but their base offense is weak and if they attack from range 1, they are left in a position where an enemy unit can subsequently wipe them out easily (again due to their 2-health and low defense). The Amazons and Hoplites are both better at range 1+ attacks and less likely to be wiped out in a single subsequent attack.

So...any suggestions on how we could better be using the Centaurs?


2) Athena - Every game we've played with her has been close, but ultimately she becomes repositioned due to 'Mighty Throw', locked down due to 'Block', and her team loses because she is not able to move around or friendly units can't reliably bring her omphalos to absorb.
- Obviously, she is not combat oriented and therefore should focus on omphalos. Typically, her Strategy power and leader talent help tremendously to rush early omphalos absorptions, but it's usually not a power that can be used more than a few times per game even when dedicating most AoW cards to the Strategy power. However, since Strategy and talents can't be used when she's absorbing omphalos and she only has 4 activation cards, it's only possible to use those abilities a couple times before the deck cycles (which is usually towards 2/3 or 3/4 of the way through a skirmish.
- Her Owl ability is nearly useless. If she's in a position where she can make a range 2 attack, that means she doesn't have friendly units in front of her to protect her from ranged 2+ attacks. If the enemy is in an adjacent area she is already in danger. For both of those scenarios, Zeus, Hercules, Hydra, and Cerberus can make a ranged AE/multi-target attack with Mighty Throw to attempt to move her closer to the enemy. Yes, she probably has a unit of Troops who are guarding her, but they will usually be moved out of the area first by targeting them first and using Mighty Throw to prevent them from actually using Guard to defend her. Then the AE/Multi-target attack targets Athena and Mighty Throw will move her closer to, or into the enemy. In the case of the four previously mentioned units, they have Block so they will prevent her from moving away.

As mentioned previously, we have mostly played 2v2 skirmishes. Perhaps she is better in 1v1 or FFA skirmishes, but I don't really see that as being the case since she's so easily Blocked and killed. Again, I don't think she's terrible, she just seems to have inferior abilities compared to Zeus, Ares, and Hades. Does anyone have thoughts on how we should be playing her to better effect?
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Mike Beiter
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I have yet to play, but when I saw the Centaurs stats, I thought they would play out exactly as you described.
If the squad is only 2 figures, it better have some pretty impressive stats or abilities to compensate and it seems like pound for pound, all the other squads are better than the centaurs.
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amanwing
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It doesn't really matter that much to only have two health because troops lose all abilities when they lose a single model.
So most troops will lose "guard" anyway after a single attack.
They are not so bad to protect objective grabbers. I played them once as skirmishers. Move to protect the other units falling back with omphalos and meanwhile shooting at enemies.
The opponent had more valuable targets so he ignored them most of the time. I would play them again in some missions.
Cant say anything about Athena. Have not used her.
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Willem Verheij
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Centaurs might get pretty good with some boosts from heroes or gods. Then again those better units would get even better with those too.
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Loig Roumois
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I agree with amanwing on the centaurs. they look like such a unworthy target, that they usually are left alone and can block routes of enemies, because everybody has to stop when entering a space with enemies.

Athena is useful if you have big monsters that require lots of AoW cards for their powers. She's best paired with a gem collector monster, who can profit from her additional cards.

The owl ignores LOS if I'm not mistaken, so she can "fire" it from behind her own units and can target enemies behind enemy units. But you are right. being only 2 spaces away is dangerous for her. better have a strong bodyguard like the Griffon, Colchidian Dragon or Python with her (they have nasty retaliation/pre-emptive strike capabilities) to deter direct confrontation.
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D Conklin
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We need more of these kinds of threads than "where's my shipment?!?" type threads on these forums.

Great points gentlemen!
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Sammaell NA
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amanwing wrote:
It doesn't really matter that much to only have two health because troops lose all abilities when they lose a single model.
So most troops will lose "guard" anyway after a single attack.
They are not so bad to protect objective grabbers. I played them once as skirmishers. Move to protect the other units falling back with omphalos and meanwhile shooting at enemies.
The opponent had more valuable targets so he ignored them most of the time. I would play them again in some missions.
Cant say anything about Athena. Have not used her.


You're right about Guard, I completely missed that rule. We have been playing without it, so now I feel like an idiot! Following the RAW doesn't make the Centaurs better, it just makes the others weaker, thus making the Centaurs appear better in comparison (LOL).
 
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Sammaell NA
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Loig wrote:
I agree with amanwing on the centaurs. they look like such a unworthy target, that they usually are left alone and can block routes of enemies, because everybody has to stop when entering a space with enemies.

Athena is useful if you have big monsters that require lots of AoW cards for their powers. She's best paired with a gem collector monster, who can profit from her additional cards.

The owl ignores LOS if I'm not mistaken, so she can "fire" it from behind her own units and can target enemies behind enemy units. But you are right. being only 2 spaces away is dangerous for her. better have a strong bodyguard like the Griffon, Colchidian Dragon or Python with her (they have nasty retaliation/pre-emptive strike capabilities) to deter direct confrontation.


The owl does not ignore LOS rules, unfortunately (although we are considering house ruling that it does).

Please note that I haven't received anything beyond the base game, so we don't have access to the units you are referring too.
 
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guest guest
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Wanna talk about troops in general? What is your favorite troop unit? Which ones are you most curious to try out? I really wanna try out the Stymphalian birds. Flyers with 6 defence, 2 movement and an area attack? Count me in.
 
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Sammaell NA
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dc0nklin wrote:
We need more of these kinds of threads than "where's my shipment?!?" type threads on these forums.

Great points gentlemen!


Where's my shipment?!?
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D Conklin
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Sammaell205 wrote:
dc0nklin wrote:
We need more of these kinds of threads than "where's my shipment?!?" type threads on these forums.

Great points gentlemen!


Where's my shipment?!?


The centaurs have it. Apparently they're such awful troops it's doubtful you'll ever see it.
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Brendan Dolan
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Limited games, but so far I like Athena. The centaurs are just OK.

Athena
When I have played her, I have used her basically for her strategist ability. Even though the has a robust 3 AoW cards, I'll still look for opportunities to draft more Aow Heroes so I can use strategist with nearly every Athena activation. When activating strategist, I usually chose to activate a 2nd or 3rd unit for which I already have a card in my hand, allowing my 3 draws to be: 1 - the other character I want to activate. 2 - the character I want to activate next turn. 3 - an extra AoW card. That approach has a few benefits:
- I have at least 2 more turns to draw a useful activation card
- I almost never have to waste an AoW to search for a card

When doing that, I have a choice with the 2nd and 3rd strategist activation:
- split them up and go after 2 Omphalos
- have them gang up on a single target if someone is foolish enough to push forward

Athena herself usually roams the back lines and only steps forward when there is an Omphalos to easily absorb. The Owl is just gravy if I luck into a situation where it can be used.

To maximize this strategy, my ideal army would be: Athena, Achilles, Cerberus (love that 2 speed), Leonidas, any troop. (activate Achilles & Cerberus with Strategist - use Leonidas & the troops as one unit).


Centaurs
I view the centaurs as bait. A common theme in my games is the first character to advance gets annihilated. Early pushes to claim a quick Omphalos are a huge risk because that first character to approach the enemy takes the brunt of an assault at a point in the game when every character still has a good number of activation cards available.

So, to counter that I try to advance troops first, holding my good characters in reserve. 2 troop units in the base game are fast enough to make a credible run at an Omphalos and force the other side into early combat (here the point is to get them to burn activation cards): Centaurs and Infernal Hounds. In general I prefer the hounds to torment the enemy lines with a Leader activation, but If I have a situation where I think I may need an extra guard later in the game, I can see using the centaurs. The Centaurs' 1 range is a nice bonus in this situation; there is a decent chance that they are close enough to the enemy that they get a shot off and do a free wound.

Ironically, Athena and the Centaurs pair well together. For most of the game I don't bother to guard Athena in favor of simply keeping her as far from the action as possible. However, late in the game some conflict become inevitable, then a single guard can be a potent thing - not so much to stop damage, but just to delay it for another turn.
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Emil Vincent Alonzo
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I think Athena's ability to set up combos is super strong actually. In contrast, I've only played 3p and 4p games, so that might be a factor as attention is split among multiple enemies.

My one friend uses Athena with hero/troops only and can chain off some great combo moves using both Leader and the additional activations.


The centaurs... yeh I dont see them as being anything special, especially with all the extended troops outside the base game. I dont think they are horrible, but yeh I dont anything great about them that other units could do better.
 
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Anton Bedarev
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The Centaurs...

Than about small home rule guys. Heracles/Minotour can use them with the same way as terrain stuff, kind of mobile torpedos?

Otherwise useless...
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Felix Lastname
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ademnon wrote:
The Centaurs...

Than about small home rule guys. Heracles/Minotour can use them with the same way as terrain stuff, kind of mobile torpedos?

Otherwise useless...


My son was suggesting something like that today. "Now that your minotaur cannot walk anymore, maybe my Heracles can throw him like one of those columns?"
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