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Subject: Quest Objective Trigger, no matter what? rss

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Tim Bookout
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Some quest objective's are fulfilled by killing a enemy.
As I understand the rules, if you kill said enemy (self-defense). You have to complete that objective even if you wanted a different one.

 
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James Sendy
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Yes, this is my understanding as well, which means you have to try and avoid the enemies that would trigger the objective...can be quite hard to do on the Commonwealth scenario
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Chris Schenck
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You can always try to use rerolls to avoid killing the enemy. It's a weird situation, but sometimes things are bizarre out in the wasteland.
 
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Tim Bookout
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So...

As it turned out I had an encounter success that stated "Choose and kill 1 enemy in two spaces".
Of course the only enemy that fulfills condition was the one I was trying not to kill.

So again I believe I have to use my 'reward' to kill enemy I am trying to avoid.



 
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Christopher Scatliff
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tbookout wrote:
So...

As it turned out I had an encounter success that stated "Choose and kill 1 enemy in two spaces".


Well now you know what not to do with Professor Goodfeels.
 
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Eric Y
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There exist a quest card (#45) in which both the first and second quest outcome are triggered by the same event, with outcomes that are thematically conflicting.

This leads me to believe that when a trigger for a quest is fulfilled, then you as the player gets a choice on whether you actually want to activate (instantly and without taking an action) the outcome.

My reason for this interpretation are as follows:

1. If both outcomes are supposed to be trigger, they wouldn't be listed under different options, and they would not both contain the instruction to "Trash". I haven't looked ahead to the following cards because the game was stopped after I saw the quest, but I would guess that the next cards staged by the two outcomes are also thematically conflicting.

2. If only one outcome is possible, the player must have a choice to choose whether to complete a triggered condition or not, otherwise, how is the outcome determined? It cannot be by numeric order, because then the second outcome will not be possible.

By extending the above interpretation, I can either conclude that this card and others like it where multiple outcomes have the exact same triggers are exceptions to the automatically forced complete rule (which is how I interpret the wording of the Learn to Play as well)

Or I can conclude that in general, a trigger is automatically eligible for completion but not forced onto the player.

A further consequence of the latter conclusion is for cards that accumulate tokens on automatic trigger with full resolution only when a certain number of tokens are accumulated also lets the player meeting the objective to choose not to add a token at all.

An extension of this interpretation also requires a decision on whether or not a triggering condition can be "saved", meaning you have fulfilled the condition, did not want to complete the objective, and can later change your mind. I would personally decide that the trigger cannot be saved to keep things uncomplicated.
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Christopher Scatliff
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CH0AM wrote:
There exist a quest card (#45) in which both the first and second quest outcome are triggered by the same event, with outcomes that are thematically conflicting.

This leads me to believe that when a trigger for a quest is fulfilled, then you as the player gets a choice on whether you actually want to activate (instantly and without taking an action) the outcome.

My reason for this interpretation are as follows:

1. If both outcomes are supposed to be trigger, they wouldn't be listed under different options, and they would not both contain the instruction to "Trash". I haven't looked ahead to the following cards because the game was stopped after I saw the quest, but I would guess that the next cards staged by the two outcomes are also thematically conflicting.

2. If only one outcome is possible, the player must have a choice to choose whether to complete a triggered condition or not, otherwise, how is the outcome determined? It cannot be by numeric order, because then the second outcome will not be possible.

By extending the above interpretation, I can either conclude that this card and others like it where multiple outcomes have the exact same triggers are exceptions to the automatically forced complete rule (which is how I interpret the wording of the Learn to Play as well)

Or I can conclude that in general, a trigger is automatically eligible for completion but not forced onto the player.

A further consequence of the latter conclusion is for cards that accumulate tokens on automatic trigger with full resolution only when a certain number of tokens are accumulated also lets the player meeting the objective to choose not to add a token at all.

An extension of this interpretation also requires a decision on whether or not a triggering condition can be "saved", meaning you have fulfilled the condition, did not want to complete the objective, and can later change your mind. I would personally decide that the trigger cannot be saved to keep things uncomplicated.


You are overinterpreting, and I assume triggering the card far too early. You are definitely doing something wrong because the way it plays out is reasonably well-explained on the cards.

At the same time that you stage 45, you have to add 46. So then you encounter stuff and eventually find 46. So this is where I assume you now think you've triggered 45. But you haven't. Card 46 doesn't trigger 45. It does add card 47. And then when you get to 47, you'll find that it has very clear instructions on it that tell you how to deal with 45.

So I'm guessing you simply jumped the gun a bit.
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Eric Y
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Smoo wrote:
You are overinterpreting, and I assume triggering the card far too early. You are definitely doing something wrong because the way it plays out is reasonably well-explained on the cards.

At the same time that you stage 45, you have to add 46. So then you encounter stuff and eventually find 46. So this is where I assume you now think you've triggered 45. But you haven't. Card 46 doesn't trigger 45. It does add card 47. And then when you get to 47, you'll find that it has very clear instructions on it that tell you how to deal with 45.

So I'm guessing you simply jumped the gun a bit.

I was using card 45 as a demonstration to an interpretation on how other cards should be triggered. I did get to card 47 and saw the resolution specifically instructs resolving card 45, which in my view is consistent with how I am approaching other cards. I just hadn't gotten to staging the next cards as part of resolving card 45 yet when I made my last post.

When a trigger on a quest is "Kill X", I would interpret the trigger as being optional at the discretion of the player who killed X. The killer may not have wanted the quest stage to proceed in the specific way and wanted to try to accomplish the quest's other objective.

Whereas card 45's resolution is clearly not optional due to the way it is triggered by card 47 specifically referencing that card 45 must be resolved as part of the the resolution of card 47.

That is not the say that I can conclude definitively whether generic triggers can be optional, merely that the mechanics for resolving card 45 is specified in such a way as to indicate that if it wasn't for the wording similar to that of card 47, other quest triggers could be interpreted as being optional.
 
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Christopher Scatliff
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Okay. I thought your objection was that you didn't know how to resolve cards with two identical triggers, to which my answer was "just wait, the game will tell you what to do".

If your objective is that triggered objectives should be optional, I might agree with you. I just misunderstood what you were talking about.
 
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Big Head Zach
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I encountered this in my first playthrough as well. The narrative wording on a great deal of these "Kill an X" objectives lend themselves to willful resolution of them and not an automatic thing.

I mean, we already handwave that once one person has talked about saving Olivia, anyone is capable of helping/harming her even if they've never met.

So if I kill a robot, for example, especially if it was not a deliberate fight (it activated in my space or fired on me adjacently), I should not be compelled to make a radio out of the scrap if I do not want the Institute to gain power.
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