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Kingdom Death: Monster» Forums » Variants

Subject: Survival of the Fittest Redraws rss

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Nicholas Vaccaro
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Hey all. I'm looking for a bit of feedback about an idea that I've been playing around with for a slight misinterpretation of a rule. A bit of background first.

As it has been pointed out in some excellent reviews of the game, the greatest strength of veteran players comes out in the showdown phase. It's where your skill really shines, and where the entirety of randomness mitigation is performed. Outside of the showdown, the survivors are subject to the will of the gods, and this is especially true of the settlement event.

Backing up quickly. During the hunt, a bad roll on the hunt event table could lead one or more survivors to just drop dead with no chance of recourse. With the introduction of Survival of the Fittest 1.5, the player could always reroll in hopes of a less awful event. Moderate randomness mitigation.

But, when it comes down to the settlement phase, particularly in regards to pulling the settlement event card, there's no getting around it. If you draw Murder, you're dead. SotF can't help.

Another tangent. Some players don't like shuffling cards. They instead roll a die and consult a lookup table. Effectively the same as shuffling and drawing. This got me thinking. Could they reroll that die?

That's obviously crazy. Or is it? I mean, they would be sacrificing one of their most powerful resources for the one part of the game in which they actually feel in control. But maybe it's too much control. Maybe never having a horrible settlement event come up would just ruin the game, like rewriting a script while reading the story. Everything just plays out exactly as you want it.

What if we made it more expensive? Like, a lot more expensive? How about if you needed two returning survivors to use their SotF lifetime rerolls to redraw a settlement event? That seems like a better trade-off. Firstly, you would need two departing survivors to return with their rolls, meaning you're less likely to use them during the showdown. That's a nice trade, and it adds a good layer of delicious stress.

What about all returning survivors need to use all SotF rerolls (at least 2) to redraw a settlement event card? Seems like way too much. At worst, a couple people die during the event, so it's overly costly.

What about any draw, like choosing innovations or such? Could the survivors' will to survive be so strong that several of them band together to push the settlement to innovate differently? Doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.

All of that, just to get to this. I propose an alternative to the SotF lifetime reroll. Any time one or more cards are drawn from a newly-shuffled deck, two departing, departed or returning survivors can use their Survival of the Fittest lifetime rerolls to reshuffle and redraw the cards.

But what about during the showdown? What about when HL or AI cards are drawn? Good question, voice of reason. I think this completely works with the hit location deck. You reshuffle (from a trap or whatever), hit, draw a few cards, and immediately get another trap. Sucks! And it may cost you to lose. Would it be fair to use 2 SotF rerolls to reshuffle? Hell yeah! Really makes you consider the cost.

What about the AI deck? Let's say that it has just been shuffled and someone used the rawhide headband. You know that the top two cards are both horrible, and you can't get rid of either. Two SotF rerolls to reshuffle, but not necessarily have another peek available? Seems fair.

If you're still here, thanks for reading all that. I look forward to hearing any opinions. And as always may the odds be ever in your...oops, knocked off it's ding dong.
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Sum
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If you can keep the worst things from happening (whatever the cost), then they aren't the worst things, they just become a tax. That is boring to me and this seems to only serve the purpose of protecting favorite survivors, which I don't like and doesn't feel very KD.

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Felipe Bulhões
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It's your game, but I don't think SOTF needs more buffs. It's already the flavor of the month.
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Drake Coker
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Frankly I find the rerolls of SotF too generous already and am somewhat restricting them in my games. About the only thing up to true chance are the card draws.

That being said, I have played with various redraw mechanics and do have some suggestions:

* 1 redraw = 2 rerolls is just about right. I think that will work for you.

* Pick something that you can't redraw (like SE's or AI or HL). If you can control every aspect of the game, the process may be engaging, but you'll never face the biggest challenges. Part of the fun is trying to piece together solutions to the disasters. It also helps with replayability.

That being said, I have a hard time recommending this variant.
 
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I think I prefer the "throwing rocks at the gods" variant where you can archive a founding stone to re-random any random outcome (die roll, card draw, etc). It gives some control but the number of uses is extremely limited. It also discourages founding stone cheese of the end game bosses.

The only concern I would have is getting hunt events that give you more founding stones, but you could always just rule it that only the first 4 stones from the prologue can be used for re-rolls.
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This game is about Catharsis; do what you want, but I feel people are more focused on and he character and not the settlement.
 
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Nicholas Vaccaro
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There are some really good arguments here. I wasn't considering that too much control may be bad. Might have to rethink this one.
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Drake Coker
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Taboobat wrote:
I think I prefer the "throwing rocks at the gods" variant where you can archive a founding stone to re-random any random outcome (die roll, card draw, etc). It gives some control but the number of uses is extremely limited. It also discourages founding stone cheese of the end game bosses.

The only concern I would have is getting hunt events that give you more founding stones, but you could always just rule it that only the first 4 stones from the prologue can be used for re-rolls.


Yay! Someone found my variant
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Olvenskol wrote:
Taboobat wrote:
I think I prefer the "throwing rocks at the gods" variant where you can archive a founding stone to re-random any random outcome (die roll, card draw, etc). It gives some control but the number of uses is extremely limited. It also discourages founding stone cheese of the end game bosses.

The only concern I would have is getting hunt events that give you more founding stones, but you could always just rule it that only the first 4 stones from the prologue can be used for re-rolls.


Yay! Someone found my variant


I did! I found it after I had already started my current campaigns so I haven't actually played with it yet, but I really like the idea. It gives you enough control to avoid the "as long as we don't get murder this year...fuck" situations without giving you so much power as to warp the game (I think).

Edit: bonus points for it being so simple and straightforward too!
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Matt
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I feel like everyone rolling SotF makes Murder feel worse, because it's hard to maintain a population.

I'm running Graves + Protect the Young. Even on a TPK I have a decent chance of coming home and having a net gain in population from all the augury intimacy potential, lol.

But yeah, if your principle and innovation strategy is "less population but more powerful" then every one of those deaths is more costly. That's a wager you strike when you pick SotF.
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J D
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Taboobat wrote:
I think I prefer the "throwing rocks at the gods" variant where you can archive a founding stone to re-random any random outcome (die roll, card draw, etc). It gives some control but the number of uses is extremely limited. It also discourages founding stone cheese of the end game bosses.

The only concern I would have is getting hunt events that give you more founding stones, but you could always just rule it that only the first 4 stones from the prologue can be used for re-rolls.


I like Throwing Stones at Gods as well. Perhaps limit founding stones to 4 per settlement, that way you are encouraged to use them and a string of lucky event rolls can't give you a bunch at a time. Also you can never save more than 4 for any one fight.

But then I also like the original idea of the thread author. Also I've only played one game, so what do I know!
 
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