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Subject: Invz blocking a doorway rss

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Big Man
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I have an invz cloak and activated it in a doorway to block 3 melee monsters from coming through. They could see my other hero through the door but what I got from the rules is that Invz char are viewed as obstacle. Also you can't move through obstacles so I would think this is valid.

Next question would be it says that invz stops at the end of the next turn so I then attacked the melee unit with no fear. I wondered if by attacking the invz would come off but then in the rules it says that there is nothing that will take off a positive effect which Invz is.

Did I come up with the right conclusions?
 
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Brian Lewis
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Chris Ferejohn
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For extra fun long rest next turn and keep all the melee guys back through the end of the next round...
 
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S M
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We were just having this debate about "They could see my other hero through the door "

They way I understand it is that they CAN'T see (focus) if an object is blocking the doorway, although your other players can target the monster.

Is that right?
 
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Jay Johnson
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slappy144 wrote:
We were just having this debate about "They could see my other hero through the door "

They way I understand it is that they CAN'T see (focus) if an object is blocking the doorway, although your other players can target the monster.

Is that right?

They can see them.
And if they have a ranged attack that would be within range by standing in front of the inviz-blocked doorway, they would move towards the doorway.

But if they don't have a ranged attack (or the non-inviz targets aren't within range from the monster's side of the blocked door), then they won't move.
 
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Des T.
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slappy144 wrote:
We were just having this debate about "They could see my other hero through the door "

They way I understand it is that they CAN'T see (focus) if an object is blocking the doorway, although your other players can target the monster.

Is that right?


afaik, no.

As long as there is an opponent on the map, they will focus them. It doesn't matter if they can't reach (or see) them or not.
 
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Flo
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DeS_Tructive wrote:


As long as there is an opponent on the map, they will focus them. It doesn't matter if they can't reach (or see) them or not.


This is wrong. See reply of JayJ79 which is correct according to the focus rules in the rulebook. The relevant thing is the existance of a "valid path (with infinite movement) to a hex from which an attack is possible". If this doesn't exist, there is no focus and thus no movement.
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florencka wrote:

This is wrong.


I stand corrected.
 
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Lukasz Lacny
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Wait what? You cannot create an obstacle in such a way to completely block part of the scenario. This would mean you cannot stand in the doorway and become invisible, It is written as such at the bottom of page 14, under the Obstacles subsection.
 
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elmozg wrote:
Wait what? You cannot create an obstacle in such a way to completely block part of the scenario. This would mean you cannot stand in the doorway and become invisible, It is written as such at the bottom of page 14, under the Obstacles subsection.


You do not create an obstacle. You are treated as one for the purpose of finding focus by the monsters.
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Lukasz Lacny
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florencka wrote:
elmozg wrote:
Wait what? You cannot create an obstacle in such a way to completely block part of the scenario. This would mean you cannot stand in the doorway and become invisible, It is written as such at the bottom of page 14, under the Obstacles subsection.


You do not create an obstacle. You are treated as one for the purpose of finding focus by the monsters.


Yeah you are right, just found an official answer by the author. Still find it a cheesy tactic.
 
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Jonathan Politis
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elmozg wrote:
florencka wrote:
elmozg wrote:
Wait what? You cannot create an obstacle in such a way to completely block part of the scenario. This would mean you cannot stand in the doorway and become invisible, It is written as such at the bottom of page 14, under the Obstacles subsection.


You do not create an obstacle. You are treated as one for the purpose of finding focus by the monsters.


Yeah you are right, just found an official answer by the author. Still find it a cheesy tactic.
As for cheesy tactics, with the invisibility cloak, an ability card that grants invisibility and a stamina potion, you could be invisible for almost 6 straight turns. So you can run through a gauntlet of enemies scot free or block a doorway for 6 turns while sniping out enemies.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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elmozg wrote:
Yeah you are right, just found an official answer by the author. Still find it a cheesy tactic.


Yeah, I haven't told my players about this loophole. If they figure it out, fine, but I'm not going to encourage it. (Also, nobody is playing the Scoundrel, so we don't have a whole lot of invisibility anyway.)
 
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M.C.Crispy
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DeS_Tructive wrote:
slappy144 wrote:
We were just having this debate about "They could see my other hero through the door "

They way I understand it is that they CAN'T see (focus) if an object is blocking the doorway, although your other players can target the monster.

Is that right?


afaik, no.

As long as there is an opponent on the map, they will focus them. It doesn't matter if they can't reach (or see) them or not.
FWiW, if this were true then every door that you opened would have a horde of monsters stacked up around it, just waiting for you to open it (yes, I know you don't set up rooms until you open the door, but the fact that they don't move is part of why setting up "just in time" is workable)
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Chris Ferejohn
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jpolitis wrote:
elmozg wrote:
florencka wrote:
elmozg wrote:
Wait what? You cannot create an obstacle in such a way to completely block part of the scenario. This would mean you cannot stand in the doorway and become invisible, It is written as such at the bottom of page 14, under the Obstacles subsection.


You do not create an obstacle. You are treated as one for the purpose of finding focus by the monsters.


Yeah you are right, just found an official answer by the author. Still find it a cheesy tactic.
As for cheesy tactics, with the invisibility cloak, an ability card that grants invisibility and a stamina potion, you could be invisible for almost 6 straight turns. So you can run through a gauntlet of enemies scot free or block a doorway for 6 turns while sniping out enemies.


I have yet to find any enemies that do not have some kind of ranged attacks in their deck. Also, very slowly picking off enemies isn't really the path to success in this game. It feels cheesy, but I hardly think its broken.
 
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Jay Johnson
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mccrispy wrote:
FWiW, if this were true then every door that you opened would have a horde of monsters stacked up around it, just waiting for you to open it (yes, I know you don't set up rooms until you open the door, but the fact that they don't move is part of why setting up "just in time" is workable)

All doors in the Gloomhaven realm are completely soundproof when closed. That's why none of the monsters in closed off rooms hear any of the battle sounds and come running.

but once the door is opened, the sounds carry
 
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Dexter345 wrote:


Yeah, I haven't told my players about this loophole. If they figure it out, fine, but I'm not going to encourage it. (Also, nobody is playing the Scoundrel, so we don't have a whole lot of invisibility anyway.)


Actually mind thief has more invisibility at the beginning than scoundrel.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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M.C.Crispy
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JayJ79 wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
FWiW, if this were true then every door that you opened would have a horde of monsters stacked up around it, just waiting for you to open it (yes, I know you don't set up rooms until you open the door, but the fact that they don't move is part of why setting up "just in time" is workable)

All doors in the Gloomhaven realm are completely soundproof when closed. That's why none of the monsters in closed off rooms hear any of the battle sounds and come running.

but once the door is opened, the sounds carry
Not sure how that works for outdoor scenarios where the "door" is just "fog". But if it makes you feel comfortable, keep telling yourself that
 
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Swampy Crocker
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mccrispy wrote:
JayJ79 wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
FWiW, if this were true then every door that you opened would have a horde of monsters stacked up around it, just waiting for you to open it (yes, I know you don't set up rooms until you open the door, but the fact that they don't move is part of why setting up "just in time" is workable)

All doors in the Gloomhaven realm are completely soundproof when closed. That's why none of the monsters in closed off rooms hear any of the battle sounds and come running.

but once the door is opened, the sounds carry
Not sure how that works for outdoor scenarios where the "door" is just "fog". But if it makes you feel comfortable, keep telling yourself that


It's really, really thick fog.
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J Desroches
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Honestly this is Isaac's dumbest/worst rule by far and something I would never allow in my game. There is no reason what so ever to allow it to work this way.

Either you are banned from going invis in a door way (just like a Cragheart is not allowed to create an obstacle that blocks off part of the map).

Or alternatively you allow monsters to walk through, focus through you.

I suppose a 3rd alternative, the monster runs into your face does damage or pushes you back (or both).
 
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Chris Sauro
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Flamingcloud83 wrote:
Honestly this is Isaac's dumbest/worst rule by far and something I would never allow in my game. There is no reason what so ever to allow it to work this way.

Really, it's a simple consequence of the other existing rules.

Enemies are treated as obstacles for purposes of movement except that flying figures can't land on them. This is always true, not a special property of invisibility. Invisibility just prevents enemies from focusing or targeting the invisible figure. The case in question is simply the interaction of these two things.

Unless you drastically change the rules or remove the invisible condition, no other ruling is possible without awkward special cases.
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Jay Johnson
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I suppose you could have the monsters in the blocked room all swarm in front of the door. That could lead to making it quite hard for any other characters (besides the invisible door blocker) from getting in, or it makes the monster horde quite ripe for AoE attacks in a quite cheesy way.
 
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Fito R
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mccrispy wrote:
JayJ79 wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
FWiW, if this were true then every door that you opened would have a horde of monsters stacked up around it, just waiting for you to open it (yes, I know you don't set up rooms until you open the door, but the fact that they don't move is part of why setting up "just in time" is workable)

All doors in the Gloomhaven realm are completely soundproof when closed. That's why none of the monsters in closed off rooms hear any of the battle sounds and come running.

but once the door is opened, the sounds carry
Not sure how that works for outdoor scenarios where the "door" is just "fog". But if it makes you feel comfortable, keep telling yourself that
You ever play Dark Souls? They're Fog Gates. Perfectly impenetrable right up until the protagonist waltzes through them.
 
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J Desroches
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masterzora wrote:
Flamingcloud83 wrote:
Honestly this is Isaac's dumbest/worst rule by far and something I would never allow in my game. There is no reason what so ever to allow it to work this way.

Really, it's a simple consequence of the other existing rules.

Enemies are treated as obstacles for purposes of movement except that flying figures can't land on them. This is always true, not a special property of invisibility. Invisibility just prevents enemies from focusing or targeting the invisible figure. The case in question is simply the interaction of these two things.

Unless you drastically change the rules or remove the invisible condition, no other ruling is possible without awkward special cases.


I know where you/Isaac are coming from but there are special rules preventing you from putting obstacles in doors/blocking regions so I see no reason why you also can't have a special rule for invisibility in a door way/blocking a region.

A Cragheart sprinting through a room and then trapping the old enemies in the old room in not significantly more cheesy then invisibility in door ways making opening doors drastically less dangerous. (that is just one of the ways to cheese invisibility in a door)



Regardless its very easy to house rule that out of existence and the easiest way to do so is for me to just say "No invisibility in a doorway - period"
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