Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
47 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Fallout» Forums » Rules

Subject: Addiction rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Chris Aamot
msg tools
You cannot discard drugs if you are addicted. Can you sell or trade them to other players?

Thematically, I think no. But I can't find anything forbidding it in the rules manuals.

We had a player who would spam drug use, then give them to other players for them to sell and it seemed exploitive of the rules.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Scatliff
Canada
Victoria
British Columbia
flag msg tools
It's about time, too.
badge
I hate overtext but love irony.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree with your interpretation. You're clearly not intended to be able to voluntarily dispose of them.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J P
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You cannot. According to the RR under “Camp Action,” it says that when trading “exhausted cards must be unexhausted.” If you’re addicted they will be exhausted, so you can’t trade them.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Scatliff
Canada
Victoria
British Columbia
flag msg tools
It's about time, too.
badge
I hate overtext but love irony.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DancingFool wrote:
You cannot. According to the RR under “Camp Action,” it says that when trading “exhausted cards must be unexhausted.” If you’re addicted they will be exhausted, so you can’t trade them.

Valiant effort, but no. The bullet rule that exhausted cards must be unexhausted only applies to camping. The restrictions on trading were sub-bullets under the first bullet. This is a separate bullet. Unrelated.

That said, I still think addicted people should have to keep their drugs. I just don't think there's a rule which supports that position.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamel Rha
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
And in case the player thought of selling them while shopping, the RR under Shopping, indicates : « The survivor discards an equipped card or a card from his or her inventory to gain Cap... », thus you cannot sell cards you cannot discard.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamel Rha
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Smoo wrote:
DancingFool wrote:
You cannot. According to the RR under “Camp Action,” it says that when trading “exhausted cards must be unexhausted.” If you’re addicted they will be exhausted, so you can’t trade them.

Valiant effort, but no. The bullet rule that exhausted cards must be unexhausted only applies to camping. The restrictions on trading were sub-bullets under the first bullet. This is a separate bullet. Unrelated.

That said, I still think addicted people should have to keep their drugs. I just don't think there's a rule which supports that position.

Good catch! Hmm let’s see...

Well, it means you cannot trade things that are exhausted, right? And it costs 2 caps to unexhaust drug while addicted. Therefore the addicted needs to spend 2 to trade it to another player so the later can potentially gains 3 (if he draws a shopping card while doing encounter). The total result is +1 caps, but money must be spent first, camp and trade must be possible and the receiver must do an settlement encouter.

So yeah, therefore an addict could get rid of his/her drugs, but it might be a hassle (and potentially a huge one).

Edit for clarity
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig S.
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Jamelrha wrote:
Well, it means you cannot trade things that are exhausted, right?

You most definitely can trade things that are exhausted. It's specifically says so in the rules, and points out that exhausted cards remain exhausted when they are traded.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamel Rha
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
csouth154 wrote:
Jamelrha wrote:
Well, it means you cannot trade things that are exhausted, right?

You most definitely can trade things that are exhausted. It's specifically says so in the rules, and points out that exhausted cards remain exhausted when they are traded.

Right, under « Exhaust ».

It gets rids of the 2 caps cost, so it makes the exploit more profitable and possible. It needs that 2 players play as a team: the addict and the guy that will trade his used drugs and maybe gives new drugs...

Heh, the addict and his/her dealer! Kinda thematic when you think about it.

Still a hassle and it means that one player will do nothing more than be a drugs runner to permit the spamming of drugs by the addict. And it supposes that the stores are full of drugs.

To OP, was the spamming that bad? It seems to me that under specific parameters and a good alignment of the stars, it can be indeed powerful but limited in time.



1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J P
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Smoo wrote:
DancingFool wrote:
You cannot. According to the RR under “Camp Action,” it says that when trading “exhausted cards must be unexhausted.” If you’re addicted they will be exhausted, so you can’t trade them.

Valiant effort, but no. The bullet rule that exhausted cards must be unexhausted only applies to camping. The restrictions on trading were sub-bullets under the first bullet. This is a separate bullet. Unrelated.

That said, I still think addicted people should have to keep their drugs. I just don't think there's a rule which supports that position.

Yes, you're right. That's what I get for reading too fast.

Anyway, thinking about it more, I think it's totally thematic to be able to trade them. In real life, if you're addicted to drugs you're certainly capable of handing a bag of drugs to someone else (even though you might not want to).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig S.
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
DancingFool wrote:
Smoo wrote:
DancingFool wrote:
You cannot. According to the RR under “Camp Action,” it says that when trading “exhausted cards must be unexhausted.” If you’re addicted they will be exhausted, so you can’t trade them.

Valiant effort, but no. The bullet rule that exhausted cards must be unexhausted only applies to camping. The restrictions on trading were sub-bullets under the first bullet. This is a separate bullet. Unrelated.

That said, I still think addicted people should have to keep their drugs. I just don't think there's a rule which supports that position.

Yes, you're right. That's what I get for reading too fast.

Anyway, thinking about it more, I think it's totally thematic to be able to trade them. In real life, if you're addicted to drugs you're certainly capable of handing a bag of drugs to someone else (even though you might not want to).

You could use the same logic when it comes to throwing them in the gutter, or to put it another way, discarding them...which you are clearly not allowed to do.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamel Rha
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DancingFool wrote:
Smoo wrote:
DancingFool wrote:
You cannot. According to the RR under “Camp Action,” it says that when trading “exhausted cards must be unexhausted.” If you’re addicted they will be exhausted, so you can’t trade them.

Valiant effort, but no. The bullet rule that exhausted cards must be unexhausted only applies to camping. The restrictions on trading were sub-bullets under the first bullet. This is a separate bullet. Unrelated.

That said, I still think addicted people should have to keep their drugs. I just don't think there's a rule which supports that position.

Yes, you're right. That's what I get for reading too fast.

Anyway, thinking about it more, I think it's totally thematic to be able to trade them. In real life, if you're addicted to drugs you're certainly capable of handing a bag of drugs to someone else (even though you might not want to).

One problem for the game is that means that Addiction is way more punishing solo than in multiplayer mode (you cannot trade in solo obviously). I don’t know if that was the intention of the designers initially.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grim NayShawn
United States
Carmine
Texas
flag msg tools
mb
Grab the Lab Coat and you can carry all the drugs without penalty.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamel Rha
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
csouth154 wrote:


You could use the same logic when it comes to throwing them in the gutter, or to put it another way, discarding them...which you are clearly not allowed to do.

I’m beginning to think we have caught a flaw in the rules. Maybe the drugs cards should have mentionned that they cannot be traded when the player has the Addicted trait.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig S.
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Jamelrha wrote:
csouth154 wrote:


You could use the same logic when it comes to throwing them in the gutter, or to put it another way, discarding them...which you are clearly not allowed to do.

I’m beginning to think we have caught a flaw in the rules. Maybe the drugs cards should have mentionned that they cannot be traded when the player has the Addicted trait.

I believe so.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamel Rha
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GrimNayShawn wrote:
Grab the Lab Coat and you can carry all the drugs without penalty.

That is why you try to make friends with that scientific looking person at a party.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
El Dorito
United States
Dallas
Texas
flag msg tools
Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
badge
Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I like to think of exhausted drug cards when you addicted as addictions. So you cannot trade away your addictions. You need to give them some useable drugs first
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Angelus Seniores
Belgium
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Trading away cards feels like discarding them from your inventory to go anywhere else so i definitely do not allow it.

Vault dweller + hazmat suit: can pretty much stay addiction free while using drugs as much as he wants.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamel Rha
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, from a thematic and gaming point of view, an addict trading drugs is not perfect. And it seems to punish more the solo player for no clear reasons.

Does FFG read the forums of should they be contacted so they can include that kind of precisions in future FAQs?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron Day
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Jamelrha wrote:
I’m beginning to think we have caught a flaw in the rules. Maybe the drugs cards should have mentioned that they cannot be traded when the player has the Addicted trait.
I don't think it's a flaw at all. You need two people for the trade, and the addict will most certainly need the trade more than the other guy. The second player can really put the screws to the addict, forcing him to throw in some valuable weapon, extra caps, or Agenda cards just to take the drugs off his hand.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Angelus Seniores
Belgium
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Havent seen any FFG response on BGG ever, at least cant remember any.
You do need to contact them or maybe post on the FFG forum to get answers from them.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamel Rha
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Angelsenior wrote:
Havent seen any FFG response on BGG ever, at least cant remember any.
You do need to contact them or maybe post on the FFG forum to get answers from them.

Yeah I guess that company has strict rules for social media (and I can see why). But they did Faq in the past, if I remember correctly, so ther might be hope lol.


Hedgehobbit wrote:
Jamelrha wrote:
I’m beginning to think we have caught a flaw in the rules. Maybe the drugs cards should have mentioned that they cannot be traded when the player has the Addicted trait.
I don't think it's a flaw at all. You need two people for the trade, and the addict will most certainly need the trade more than the other guy. The second player can really put the screws to the addict, forcing him to throw in some valuable weapon, extra caps, or Agenda cards just to take the drugs off his hand.

Yeah it can be justified this way, I agree. The only problems would be:
- Why can an addict hand over drugs but not throw them away?
- It makes the addicted trait much more difficult to deal with for solo players.

So it is not a huge flaw, but something that might need to be tweaked a little for coherence.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Aamot
msg tools
Jamelrha wrote:

To OP, was the spamming that bad? It seems to me that under specific parameters and a good alignment of the stars, it can be indeed powerful but limited in time.




It wasn't TOO bad, but it was often and deliberate enough that it felt like a rules exploit. He went through about 4 drugs after addicted, selling them or giving them to other players. He wouldn't believe me that selling to a store involved "discarding," and when I showed him the rulebook argued that was my own interpretation.

But then, he was unable to become rested. That's a big enough cost for addiction itself if you ask me.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I'm pretty new here and this community seems great!
1 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamel Rha
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Left4Chris wrote:
Jamelrha wrote:

To OP, was the spamming that bad? It seems to me that under specific parameters and a good alignment of the stars, it can be indeed powerful but limited in time.


It wasn't TOO bad, but it was often and deliberate enough that it felt like a rules exploit. He went through about 4 drugs after addicted, selling them or giving them to other players. He wouldn't believe me that selling to a store involved "discarding," and when I showed him the rulebook argued that was my own interpretation.

But then, he was unable to become rested. That's a big enough cost for addiction itself if you ask me.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I'm pretty new here and this community seems great!

Selling cards in stores is discarding them as per rules, so an addict cannot sell his drugs. So at least he would need to stop doing that.

Trading them is still possible, but a hassle. Also, it brings thematic and coherence problems.

Annnddd you’ve just reminded me I forgot this weekend to take the rest well trait when camping. Lol. That would have helped a lot! Thanks
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Anthony S
New Zealand
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Angelsenior wrote:
Havent seen any FFG response on BGG ever, at least cant remember any.
You do need to contact them or maybe post on the FFG forum to get answers from them.

Jonathan Ying (Doom, Imperial Assault) was always very good at replying to posts, even offering up variants.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike W
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't see a problem since it takes two to trade. A player has to weigh the benefits of helping the addict against the benefit for themselves.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   |