Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
47 Posts
Prev «  1 , 2  | 

Fallout» Forums » Rules

Subject: Addiction rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Joe
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Honestly, I think you need the way out of addiction through an intervention (trading). If you are addicted and find more drugs through looting, your inventory fills up. If you have three drugs, you are stuck with those for the entire game. You can't even use adictol to cure yourself since after getting it, you have to discard it to keep your three drugs.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron Day
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Stl0369 wrote:
You can't even use adictol to cure yourself since after getting it, you have to discard it to keep your three drugs.
Addictol is triggered on discard. When you discard your inventory down to three, the Addictol takes effect and removes your addiction. Then you can discard your drugs if you wish.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G. Michael Bridge
United States
Plainfield
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
so an addicted survivor would not discard their "drug" items when killed?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Scatliff
Canada
Victoria
British Columbia
flag msg tools
It's about time, too.
badge
I hate overtext but love irony.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This topic is becoming more interesting than I initially thought. There seem to be a lot of anomalies and contradictions to reconcile. Good thread.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Scatliff
Canada
Victoria
British Columbia
flag msg tools
It's about time, too.
badge
I hate overtext but love irony.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So, by a strict reading of the rules and the text on drug cards, an addicted survivor experiences the following:

1) Cannot sell drugs. (the rules for selling require you to "discard" the item)
2) Can trade drugs. (this does not involve discarding)
3) Would keep all their drugs when they are killed. (they can't be discarded)
4) If you acquire a fourth drug card, you create a time-space paradox and we all cease to exist.

Some of the problems (including the highly disturbing #4) get solved if you interpret the text on drug cards to mean "you can not voluntarily discard this card"... meaning you still couldn't sell it, but you'd still have to discard it on being killed or on excess inventory (although you'd still have to preferentially discard non-drug items first).

More problematical is the situation where an addict has three drug items. It becomes impossible for them to acquire and use Addictol to fix their issue, since my understanding is that fast action (like perk use and other discard effects) can only be used between survivor actions while inventory reconciliation has to happen immediately. Perhaps my understanding of this is flawed.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Scatliff
Canada
Victoria
British Columbia
flag msg tools
It's about time, too.
badge
I hate overtext but love irony.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hedgehobbit wrote:
Stl0369 wrote:
You can't even use adictol to cure yourself since after getting it, you have to discard it to keep your three drugs.
Addictol is triggered on discard. When you discard your inventory down to three, the Addictol takes effect and removes your addiction. Then you can discard your drugs if you wish.

If this is true then this solves a lot of my issues (including several other issues - like Junk).

ETA: I think I found where I was making my assumption that this wouldn't work. The Perk rules say that perks can not be used during another non-move action. In my head, I extrapolated that to apply to all "discard" effects, but that extrapolation is clearly nont justified. So I think you're right here. Things like Addictol and Junk can be used immediately, even before inventory check. Nice.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dagon -
United States
milwaukee
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Hedgehobbit wrote:

Addictol is triggered on discard. When you discard your inventory down to three, the Addictol takes effect and removes your addiction. Then you can discard your drugs if you wish.
I don't like to think that that works to cure addiction because it means you also get to cure your addiction when you discard Addictol as part of selling it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron Day
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
n3rdx1000 wrote:
I don't like to think that that works to cure addiction because it means you also get to cure your addiction when you discard Addictol as part of selling it.
The rules for selling say: "The survivor discards a card to gain Caps."

Addictol says: "You may discard this card to lose Addicted."

Because they both refer to discarding in order to activate an effect, you can't activate both effects at the same time. IOW, if you discard to lose Addicted, you can't also be discarding to gain the Caps.

The rules for Inventory just say to "choose and discard", so they don't specify an effect activated by discarding.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Angelus Seniores
Belgium
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I do think for point 4) above that the addiction rules say you cannot discard drugs from your inventory, but if you draw new loot cards that are drugs you choose to add it to your inventory or not, so if you choose no it never enters your inventory and can be discarded just fine.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron Day
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Angelsenior wrote:
I do think for point 4) above that the addiction rules say you cannot discard drugs from your inventory, but if you draw new loot cards that are drugs you choose to add it to your inventory or not, so if you choose no it never enters your inventory and can be discarded just fine.
I don't think that matters. None of the cards specify that you can't discard them from your inventory, just that you can't discard them. So, whether or not they added to your inventory first won't affect their special rule.

Also, the rules on Loot and Inventory says that items are added to the inventory as soon as you draw them and you discard from your inventory until you hit the limit. It's not 100% clear but I'm convinced that's the intent.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamel Rha
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Things that Fallout taught me:
- Don’t brofist a deathclaw.
- Send your friend to check the obvious bait trap.
- Don’t be an addict, it messes up rules.


I think we will need Faq for drugs.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron Day
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Jamelrha wrote:
- Don’t be an addict, it messes up rules.
unless you also have the lab coat.

I know we are focusing on Addiction at the moment, but the exact timing of gaining loot cards also effects more common cards such as Fistfull of Caps and Junk.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamel Rha
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hedgehobbit wrote:
Jamelrha wrote:
- Don’t be an addict, it messes up rules.
unless you also have the lab coat.

I know we are focusing on Addiction at the moment, but the exact timing of gaining loot cards also effects more common cards such as Fistfull of Caps and Junk.

I agree. Clarifications on the timing between gaining cards and discarding them would be useful.

Until then, I will play like this :
1. Gain a card
2. If it makes you exceed your inventory limit, choose card(s) to discard.
3. Discard card(s) and apply discard effects if applicable. If you discard a card during a shopping encounter but don’t have any shopping actions left, you discard the card without selling it.

**Addict exception: if a gained drug card makes you exceed your inventory limit, discard non-drug card(s) and apply any discarded effects. If you only have drugs cards, discard the new gained drug card without any other effect (no gained caps for selling for example): it is basically a wasted draw (or really weird purchase).

Seems fair enough imho.

Edit : shopping precisions and all-drugs inventory.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Griffin
United States
Marietta
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
None of the drugs seem worth the risk.

So, if you die what happens if you're addicted?

Note that this is way more severe than addiction in the videogames. You just go to a doctor and pay a few caps to get free. Later on, your own Fallout 3 player home lab can do the job free. And anti-addiction drugs are common.

I never use them in the game on general principles and I've only used them once in the board game. I didn't get addicted that time. However, I thought at the time that well rested would reset it. Now I'll just not use them, even if I get killed if I don't (because I will respawn).

Oh well. I'm tempted to just remove all the drug cards from my solo deck. They still have resale possibilities but I'd rather get stuff I might be able to use.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Neil Edmonds
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Do you need more card ideas for the D&D Adventure System games?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
But you do get to go WEEEEEEE!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg1dQ0sBsqk

(old meme)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Angelus Seniores
Belgium
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Drugs are quite useful, and with the right equipment you can stay addiction-free.

Their modifiers can help in most tests/fights to win/succeed where you would otherwise have lost.

E special to get a E reroll

Vault dweller suit: extra E reroll

Hazmat suit: add a hit for E tests

And reroll from well-rested if available.

And given the addiction test is E3, you would have to be unlucky to still get addicted.

To unexhaust the drugs you camp from time to time but also get the well rested token.
Im sure that camping a few times is more efficient than having to use several actions to move back after respawn or having to redo tests as they failed.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
I sent in a question awhile back on some parts of this discussion. Here is the answer. It looks like it's a bad idea to become addicted when you already have three drugs on hand, but otherwise addictol can still help. Andrew's answer nicely clarifies the timing between gaining and discarding cards too!

Stl0369 wrote:
Reading through the rules of Fallout, I have a question about "addiction" and drugs. If I have a drug in my inventory and use it and become addicted, I can no longer discard that drug. If I go looting and pull two more drugs, I would never be able to discard them either, even though I never used them. Now my inventory would be full and I can never pick up another card. My understanding is that even acquiring "addictol" to cure myself, I would immediately have to discard it since I can't have more than three cards. Am I missing something, or is "addiction" supposed to be this penalizing. The only way out I can see is to trade your drugs to another player during a camp action. Thanks!

Andrew Fischer wrote:
Thanks for the question. This is unclear with the current Rules Reference wording. When a survivor would gain cards in excess of his or her inventory size, he or she can choose to discard any number of cards of his or her inventory. Then, the survivor can choose to keep a number of the drawn cards up to the number of unused slots in his or her inventory. The rest of the drawn cards are placed in their respective discard piles. (This does not count as the survivor discarding the cards, since the cards were never placed into the survivor’s inventory or equipped slots.)

So, with this functionality, an addicted survivor is only stuck with the drugs he or she already has or chooses to keep. I hope this helps clear things up!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron Day
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Stl0369 wrote:
Andrew's answer nicely clarifies the timing between gaining and discarding cards too!
Clarifying the rules by directly contradicting them. Typical FFG.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Maybe I'm missing it since it's been awhile since I've read the manual for Fallout, but I don't see a contradiction. Timing in games does matter and Andrew's ruling says that you must discard first to make room for new gear and that you cannot discard something you've never claimed.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamel Rha
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thank you! Now let’s hope for a FAQ to avoid forum searches hehe.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Angelus Seniores
Belgium
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The contradiction is that you cant discard drugs items when addicted, so while i agree you could discard the ones you just received instead of putting them in your inventory, but you cant do the same with the drugs you already have so if you already have 3 drugs you are stuck with it.
The best way to play is to never accept to place a 3rd drug item in your inventory to avoid the situation.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Scatliff
Canada
Victoria
British Columbia
flag msg tools
It's about time, too.
badge
I hate overtext but love irony.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That answer by this "Andrew" person is mechanically consistent but thematically stupid.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Prev «  1 , 2  |