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Subject: Lindsey Graham on war with North Korea rss

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Matt Brown
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Lindsey Graham: There's a 30 Percent Chance Trump Attacks North Korea

Quote:
“I would say there’s a three in 10 chance we use the military option,” Graham predicted in an interview. If the North Koreans conduct an additional test of a nuclear bomb—their seventh—“I would say 70 percent.”


As if NK is going to stop.
 
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Andre
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http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/12/asia/north-korea-un-sanctions-...

Sanctions may be affecting the general populace more than they would obviously admit. But I agree that drawing a line in the sand is not the way to go here. Especially with a guy like Trump. He would press that red button in a heartbeat, I think, if his fragile ego was dented in any way.
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Pontifex Maximus
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matthean wrote:
Lindsey Graham: There's a 30 Percent Chance Trump Attacks North Korea

Quote:
“I would say there’s a three in 10 chance we use the military option,” Graham predicted in an interview. If the North Koreans conduct an additional test of a nuclear bomb—their seventh—“I would say 70 percent.”


As if NK is going to stop.


It sounds like the good Senator is preparing people for said action. What part of "horrific tragedy which will effect every part of the globe" does the Senator not understand. There is of course the matter of War Crimes as well.

The GOP tried to normalize pedophiles for The Donald and his grey eminence Bannon. Now they are prepping us for a military action that is both totally unnecessary and has the potential to human losses not seen since the atomic bombings of Japan. And probably beyond.

But hey....emails
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J J
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What are you worried about? Haven't we been assured for the past year that the US military will simply refuse to carry out such criminal orders? That it isn't full of people who mindlessly follow orders just because they are orders?
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Mac Mcleod
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Trump has no first attack option.

If he attacks first, it's the wrong decision. It will go down in history as the wrong decision. If Trump attacks first, the blood of 10 to 20 million people will be on his hands. And, imho, the risk of a nuclear attack on u.s. soil in the next 20 years goes thru the roof.

An estimated 225,000 people died from the hiroshima and nagasaki nuclear attacks.

The japanese nuclear bombing deaths are inconsequential compared to the loss of life that will occur from starting a war on the korean penninsula.

There are almost 80 million people on the korean peninsula.

The war could spread to japan and china. It could set off total war in the asian region.
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Pontifex Maximus
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maxo-texas wrote:
Trump has no first attack option.

If he attacks first, it's the wrong decision. It will go down in history as the wrong decision. If Trump attacks first, the blood of 10 to 20 million people will be on his hands. And, imho, the risk of a nuclear attack on u.s. soil in the next 20 years goes thru the roof.

An estimated 225,000 people died from the hiroshima and nagasaki nuclear attacks.

The japanese nuclear bombing deaths are inconsequential compared to the loss of life that will occur from starting a war on the korean penninsula.

There are almost 80 million people on the korean peninsula.

The war could spread to japan and china. It could set off total war in the asian region.


Relying on the capacity of Orange Julius Caesar for rational thought strikes one as a fool's errand. And the statements of Senator Graham does not assuage any fears. Sounds more like the good Senator is prepping us for the attack to come. Hopefully they are preparing for the charges of war crimes that will come soon after
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Walt
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maxo-texas wrote:
The war could spread to japan and china. It could set off total war in the asian region.

Japan could take a nuke, presumably aimed at the US base at Yokosuka, a legitimate military target, across Tokyo Bay from, of course, Tokyo. They really should consider kicking us out of there for three years.

The US ability to defend against an ICBM is dubious. We've done some tests, but they were gimmes that we didn't always succeed in. The tech is not mature. In theory, we have missiles that could intercept an ICBM; in theory.

I don't see China getting hit, but the Korea War could re-run with NK using nukes. Even then, civilian Chinese damage would not be serious, I think. I don't think a probable scenario has China using nukes; tactically, NK has all the nukes needed, and the risk for China is too great.

Trump might be ignorant enough to try to use nukes, but that might cause a cabinet revolt and unseat him under the 25th Amendment, §4.
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J J
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maxo-texas wrote:
Trump has no first attack option.

If he attacks first, it's the wrong decision. It will go down in history as the wrong decision. If Trump attacks first, the blood of 10 to 20 million people will be on his hands. And, imho, the risk of a nuclear attack on u.s. soil in the next 20 years goes thru the roof.


Do any of the people in your current administration strike you as giving a flying fuck about any of the above? And if they do, are they in a position to gainsay the idiot at the top?
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Walt
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JasonJ0 wrote:
Do any of the people in your current administration strike you as giving a flying fuck about any of the above? And if they do, are they in a position to gainsay the idiot at the top?

Among the political appointees, maybe Pence? Everyone else seems to have been chosen to make their departments fail, in line with the GOP position that all gov't is incompetent--all strangely beneficial to Russia.
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Seth Smith
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Lindsey Graham seems to only show up these days to talk about war with North Korea. Seems like he's been sucking up to Trump lately too. Kinda scary.
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Pretender to the Throne of Alsace-Lorraine
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Alright, I really don't want to get all Dr. Strangelove here, but here are two points to consider:

1) Intelligence firm Stratfor suggests that the idea that the DPRK could "level Seoul" is not necessarily accurate. Now I've mentioned this capability before as an argument against war, so reading this article did not exactly confirm my original biases.

https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/how-north-korea-would...

Quote:
The North Korean military's most powerful tool is artillery. It cannot level Seoul as some reports have claimed, but it could do significant damage. Pyongyang risks deteriorating its forces by exposing them to return fire, however, which significantly restricts their use.

. . .

The biggest anticipated cost of a North Korean artillery barrage in response to an attack would be the at least partial destruction of Seoul. But the volume of fire that the North can direct against the South Korean capital is limited by some important factors. Of the vast artillery force deployed by the North along the border, only a small portion — Koksan 170-mm self-propelled guns, as well as 240-mm and 300-mm multiple launch rocket systems — are capable of actually reaching Seoul. Broadly speaking, the bulk of Pyongyang's artillery can reach only into the northern border area of South Korea or the northern outskirts of Seoul.

. . .



[Emphasis mine]


Now, I don't know Stratfor's particular political alignment, I assume they're broadly pro-military, but when mo-fos start labeling charts with "Kilograms of high explosives per hour", I think it's safe to assume that they know their shit.

2) I dunno, I don't support war against North Korea, but there is an argument to be made that they're crazy-ass bastards, and we can't subject the United States to the threat of nuclear fire because the DPRK's current dictator had a bad day. If we have to neutralize that threat someday, now is better than later, because they'll only get more warheads and more accurate targeting systems.

Now, at the end of the day, I assume that North Korea is not Charles Bronson, and doesn't have a death-wish, that they will adhere to the doctrine of Mutually-Assured Destruction, but I don't know, their "international brand" is kind of "We're crazy and you never know what we might do".

I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, and lord knows I don't particularly want to do that for the man currently in the White House.
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Jon M
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So Seoul would only be subject to the equivalent of about 400 V1's per hour per square kiolmoeter, good to know. Just to put that into context that is the equivalent of the blitz on Britain that lasted 12 months in just 1 week on each square km of the city.

Assuming it doesn't get nuked first.

Having said that dead foreigners don't seem to bother most American administrations so who knows what could happen.
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