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Subject: Would you prefer your Attack Mod Cards were a grab bag of tokens? rss

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Tom Maertz
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Would you prefer your Attack Mod Cards were a grab bag of tokens?

I dont really like reshuffling small cards like the Attack Modifiers. I think Id much rather draw Modifier Tokens to draw out of. I might make some.

Wakrob, the Brute
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Nathan Stiles
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Brandon
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CptBlood wrote:
Would you prefer your Attack Mod Cards were a grab bag of tokens?

I dont really like reshuffling small cards like the Attack Modifiers. I think Id much rather draw Modifier Tokens to draw out of. I might make some.

Wakrob, the Brute


No. Something else to lose and it would take up more room. You should insert a poll into your OP for this kind of thing. Edit-- I'll do it for you.

Poll
Would you prefer your Attack Mod Cards were a grab bag of tokens?
yes
no
      262 answers
Poll created by SaintHax

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Flo
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For me the attack modifier deck is one of the best things in gloomhaven. Especially because it's not dice or tokens.
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Ben Kyo
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Yes, anything that cuts down on shuffling would have to be an improvement.
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J D
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I did this for the game Dominion Big Box (English). It playxjust as well and I don't have to shuffle cards every couple turns. I may in the future do this with the monster ability cards as well. Reshuffling 8 carss every couple turns is bleh.
 
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Staffan Johansson
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A thing to remember if you do that: a deck mostly evens out over time. If I draw a -2 now, that's one -2 less in my deck until I reshuffle. That way, it provides some protection against lucky/unlucky streaks - not perfect protection, but some. You might think that is a good or a bad thing, but it's definitely a thing to keep in mind.
 
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Gunther Schmidl
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Well, you can leave the tokens out of the bag until you draw one that requires "reshuffling", too.
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Des T.
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Oh god no!
- Easy to lose
- if you lose one, good luck replacing it
- extremely finicky (draw a token, leave it outside of the bag until you get a reroll token)
- five baggies for tokens needed
- very reduced customisation options
- speaking from my experiences with the monster tokens in Arkham Horror, with the amount of action those things would see, they'd be in a horrible state way before you finish half of the campaign
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J D
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DeS_Tructive wrote:
Oh god no!
- Easy to lose
- if you lose one, good luck replacing it
- extremely finicky (draw a token, leave it outside of the bag until you get a reroll token)
- five baggies for tokens needed
- very reduced customisation options
- speaking from my experiences with the monster tokens in Arkham Horror, with the amount of action those things would see, they'd be in a horrible state way before you finish half of the campaign


1. Not sure how a 1.5 inch wooden disc would be easier to lose than a card.
2. No more finicky than draw a card and leaving it face up in a stack.
3. Not sure how 5 baggies for tokens is any different from 5 card boxes needed. (Assuming it is about keeping them together between uses. /-edit to add, just realized you mean to draw from. Not really a problem in my case as I have plenty of felt bags. But yes, it would require bags.
4. Not sure what is meant by reduced custimisation here. They would be the same.
5. I have been playing with my Dominion tokens quite a bit, and no real degration have come from them. Not to mention, since I made them, if one was to become ruined, I can reprint the label and make a new one that looked like the other tokens. Can`t do that with the cards.

Now after saying all that, the tokens would require a lot more storage space than the cards.
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Esther Pettigrew
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Nah.
Cards work fine for me.
There’s plenty of time to reshuffle while other players are taking their turns.
I gots 20 dex.
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Andy B
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I like the idea of a draw bag for this purpose.

Actually, one could always draw the cards out of a large enough bag. Maybe sleeve them first.
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HenningK
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No. I like cards.
 
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Kara S
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Mechanically I think tokens from a bag would work fine and can see the appeal if you hate shuffling. Personally, though, I prefer the cards. Though I'm sure it makes no difference, drawing from a bag feels the same as when I'm rolling dice - as if my technique will somehow affect what I draw/roll whereas a shuffled deck of cards is SET and won't move until shuffled so it somehow feels more stable.
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Maciej Stępiński
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Unlike other people in this thread, I'm willing to give this a shot. I don't know if I can find enough tokens for it, but I'm all for experimenting.
 
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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Jettosan wrote:
Unlike other people in this thread, I'm willing to give this a shot. I don't know if I can find enough tokens for it, but I'm all for experimenting.

you will need over 500 tokens as each character has his own modifiers.
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Stefan
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I don't see much benefit in using tokens.

+ shuffling is a little easier

- more expensive material (5 bags + punchable card board tokens)
- material gets used up quick (no sleeving possible... I have played Arkham Horror for a while, drawing monsters with this method and the cardboard tokens look like trash now)
- drawing tokens from the bag is slower than drawing cards from the stack
- additional space required inside the character boxes because tokens are thicker than cards
- more randomness (depending on how you deal with "shuffling")
- higher possibility to fall down from the table or get lost
- would take slightly more space on the table
- adjusting your token pool inbetween plays (due to leftover curses/blessings/road events/lvl ups/char switching) would be fiddly and annoying

I find dealing with the damage and condition tokens fiddly enough and am absolutely happy about the existing card decks.

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Mathue Faulkner
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I prefer cards because that's what we have and they don't bother me. I can see some pros and cons to tokens, and I don't see how it's worth the effort.
 
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Robert Stewart
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I'm neutral - it pretty obviously doesn't affect actual outcomes, and it can go either way for ease of use/storage. Personally, I'm thinking small coloured wooden/plastic cubes with a key
 
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Jay Johnson
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danom wrote:
- more randomness (depending on how you deal with "shuffling")

I don't understand the logic of this, unless you're using some sort of trick shuffle or trying to use psychic abilities to read the cards in the stack.
 
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Ben Kyo
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JayJ79 wrote:
danom wrote:
- more randomness (depending on how you deal with "shuffling")

I don't understand the logic of this, unless you're using some sort of trick shuffle or trying to use psychic abilities to read the cards in the stack.

Actually, I'd say it is a significant benefit of tokens, as most people don't shuffle well enough to randomise decks.
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Flo
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Benkyo wrote:

Actually, I'd say it is a significant benefit of tokens, as most people don't shuffle well enough to randomise decks.


I use a bag with chaos tokens for AH LCG and I'm having a hard time randomizing the tokens in the bag. It always feels like I'm unable to mix the tokens in the bag well enough not to pull always the same 5 or 6 of them all the time. Shuffling cards is well defined and you get a clear feeling about how well you shuffle them.
 
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Des T.
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Mesclor wrote:

1. Not sure how a 1.5 inch wooden disc would be easier to lose than a card.

5. I have been playing with my Dominion tokens quite a bit, and no real degration have come from them. Not to mention, since I made them, if one was to become ruined, I can reprint the label and make a new one that looked like the other tokens. Can`t do that with the cards.


I assumed OP was referring to cardboard tokens, not wood. That's why I drew the comparison to AH. Using rather large wooden tokens like you describe would alleviate some of the issues I mentioned, but also worsen some of the others.

Quote:
4. Not sure what is meant by reduced custimisation here. They would be the same.


I was referring to custom card sets for personal classes, etc. It's a lot easier to have a deck of cards printed on decent stock paper than punch out tokens on cardboard.

Quote:
2. No more finicky than draw a card and leaving it face up in a stack.


While you're probably correct when looking at single tokens, once you're working with stacks, cards are definitely easier to handle.

I admit that using larger wooden or poker-chipish tokens would be damn cool. I just woodn't (HA!) be willing to go form over function in a game as big as GH. I try to aim for ASAP setup and teardown times and a small footprint and ease to use during play. I don't feel tokens work towards that goal as well as cards.
 
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Na Ele
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In Arkham Horror the tokens looks like an amazing idea and you enjoy drawing them a lot in your first few games.

Then you use an app, gain SO MUCH TIME and never see your token bag again.

I think it's a false good idea. It's classy but not really effective, longer to draw, harder to shuffle well, and for Gloomhaven it can take too much space with a bag per player and another one for the monsters.
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Des T.
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Naele wrote:
In Arkham Horror the tokens looks like an amazing idea and you enjoy drawing them a lot in your first few games.

Then you use an app, gain SO MUCH TIME and never see your token bag again.

I don't.. how does that even?

WHAT?!?
 
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Stefan
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JayJ79 wrote:
danom wrote:
- more randomness (depending on how you deal with "shuffling")

I don't understand the logic of this, unless you're using some sort of trick shuffle or trying to use psychic abilities to read the cards in the stack.

Well, the current shuffling system has the tendency to mitigate luck in both directions while still allowing randomness. Say you just were unlucky during your last attacks, drawing your -2 and both of your remaining -1 cards. Now they would be in the discard pile and for further draws you could only draw cards with positive values (except for the 0 damage card) which would with a high chance result in you having a "lucky streak", where you draw +0s and propably some of your +1/+2 cards and this would mitigate the bad luck you had during previous turns. If you would shuffle after each draw, this would turn to just be completely random while with the RAW you would have more control of your deck and also get some averaging effect into the damage you do over one scenario.

Keep in mind that this is just a minor thing, and I believe, that using token bags would be feasible, but due to all of the small negative aspects compared to the card drawing, I would see no reason to change the existing system.
 
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