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Subject: Totally unsure how to load out my gangs rss

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Pete Grey
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Question from a total (well, almost total) newb here.

I'm having total AP when it comes to assembling the gangs that came in the box. It's not the assembly giving me pause, as I've put together many a mini over the years.

*I have also never done any magnetization on minis, unfortunately, and don't really feel like now is the time to start practicing on these new beautiful pieces.

Ultimitely, it is the weapon/item selections for each gang that I'm struggling with.

A little background on me- I've played original Necromunda only a small handful of times about two years ago (Van Saars), and enjoyed it. But I was very limited to playing with only one other dude, and distance and conflicting schedules unfortunately made it difficult for us to get together.

With Necromunda: Underhive so far, I've picked up the base set, the Gang War book, the Gang Cards, and am waiting on a shipped Promethium Forge MDF set.

This game looks great and I'm excited to glue some stuff together and throw down.

But I'm not certain at this time whether or not I'll be venturing into public plays at game stores and local clubs, or if this might just be something I’ll be attempting to recruit friends into.

What it boils down to is I'm unsure how to load out my gangs. As I see it, I could go one of two ways, and was hoping to get pros & cons from some more experienced players.

First option- load the gangs out exactly as indicated on the gang cards that come in the box set. I see this as appealing as the pre-made cards would match and I'm hoping that these teams, being designed by GW, would be somewhat balanced when in conflict with each other. Also, I'm hoping playing Zone Mortalis (limited to original rules in the booklet came in the starter box) is somewhat balanced in this way.

Second option-
spend a lot of time, probably a whole lot, learning a lot more about the game, before I even play it. Obviously, this would help to maximize each and every gang member.

While that might ultimately be the "smartest" bang for the buck if I do end up playing in public, maybe entering some campaigns, it feels like there would be a very very steep learning curve to try and learn all that is involved before I even feel comfortable assembling my own gangs.

I'm real curious to see if others out there are having some of the same beginners "angsty" hesitations, and also to hear from some more experienced players on what their thoughts on initial load outs for beginning players might be.

Thanks in advance!




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Tom Hill
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Great post, a lot of defining your roll-out has to do with your particular play style. I decided to use the base-game recommendations for the 20 gangers. This seems to force you to try a few more loadouts and forces you to try other combinations. I wouldn't get bogged down in the gang-war rules until you're familiar with the core-rules. I love the gang building element of the game, but there's a certain appeal about picking 6-10 models and just playing a game.

You may decided to pick a different gang down the line too and by then you'll have more experience.

The core gang boxes are relatively cheap too, so if there's no appropriate models I may pick up another box. There is talk about ForgeWorld providing Resin weapon packs too some time in Jan/Feb.

HTH
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Mark
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Each gang comes with two identical sprues. So, each sprue has 5 torsos, and two of everything else (arms, weapons, heads, hair). The two sprues combined, can make 10 unique models. Or, one could double up on any particular torso/weapon combo. So, have two identical models.

I confess I built them according to the instructions. So, I can't say if it is easy to do crossmatching, and maybe build models with different arms and weapons from those shown in the instructions. If so, that could make more than two identically armed models. Again, I don't know.

Now, we gotta remember the gangs that are "pre-built" in the basic boxset are built to different parameters than the ones used in a campaign. Different starting points, different weapons costs. So, straight up building gangs according to the instructions will make 10 man gangs that are not going to fit into the Gang War starting 1000 cred limits. Also, those two basic box starting gangs are meant to be used in the confined 2D Zonal Mortalis cardboard boards. So, no heavy weapons. The Legacy Gangs pdf includes heavy weapons. Don't know if Eschers and Goliaths will get retrofits.

I'm not into building optimum gangs. From the background, I kind of see their construction as more haphazard. And, unless one goes to extremes (for instance, a whole gang exclusively armed with hand-to-hand weapons), it's not going to be all that decisive, anyway. To my way of thinking, over thinking to the point of analysis paralysis defeats the purpose. I'd rather lose a game because I did not optimize, than not play a game because I'm still deciding on how to optimize.
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alex bermudez
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General consensus seems to be that GW didn't do a whole load of playtesting and as such, among other things, the two starting gangs are horribly unbalanced. The Goliath seem to be the easy mode with high strength and toughness, better armor, and unwavering Cool, while the Escher are worse in stats almost all the way around where it counts. People say that in order to be competitive the Escher need a better loadout than what they slapped together for the premade gangs.

You might try yaktribe.games for some good discussion on how to build the gangs for effectiveness.
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Pete Grey
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Hmmm, there's good advice here, on both sides.

I'm leaning towards doing them as prescribed, just to get me going. Get me playing the Zone Mortalis & hopefully have them assembled (not painted) when my Promethium Forge stuff gets here... Then maybe when the next gangs come in (Orlock) first quarter, maybe by then I'll have a better idea how to specially configure gangs.
 
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Oak Wolf
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I play Escher, and currently here's my take on it:

We need 2-3 long range gangers to pin enemies. I tend to prefer lasguns for this as my goal is to hit the enemy and it provides a greater short range bonus. My goal is not to wound the enemy but to pin them down and i don't want them to run out of ammo. This is even more obvious to me if lasguns do indeed cost 5 crédits for the gang.

Our leader should be used at range sadly...while she is a hell vixen in melee, she is far too valuable due to being the only model with a decent Cool stat...and we can't replace her. It really sucks but it seems she's mainly there to keep the gang fighting once it bottles out.

The toxin rule seems to be miswritten, and if it is intended to replace the "to wound roll" then it'll be very useful at the start of a cycle/turf war. In fact, it might make up for the Juve's pathetic Strenght of 2. Since GW-community's tactica imply that it bypasses regular to wound roll, then i'll assume it does until FAQ'ed. I say "good for the beginning" because once people get +T advances it will affect the weapon's usefulness.

That premise done, we need close range gangers, and a bunch of them.

Stiletto Swords and laspistols seems like a great combo for a ganger, while the Stiletto knife seems to be designed for the Juve (making them good in melee). Given the Juve's crappy ballistic skill, the autopistol might be a good idea instead of the laspistol at point blank range.

The biggest question i have right now is for the "specialty" weapons.

Chem Thrower: This weapon, like all gas-based tech, will be good at the start of a campaign, but crappy once people have respirators and +T advances. So if i get one, i'll get it early, if not, i'll probably never do and instead take shotguns. In any case we might get access to a heavy stubber down the road, or flamers.

Plasma Pistol - these might not be necessary at the start of a campaign, but will overtime be really helpful, especially vs Goliaths. Champions in particular enjoy these with their better shooting skill and great melee potential.
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Tom Hill
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Oak this is a great summary and inline with everything warhammerTV has described too. Escher are not the closecombat gang they once were. They have to specialise in pinning and running especially against the Goliath gang who are now the heavy hitters.
 
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Mark
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Toxin replaces the "To Wound" roll. How else would it work? In fact, it has a slightly less chance of wounding a T4 Goliath. But, it takes models directly out of action, without a Serious Injury roll.

I was misplaying Chem Synth, thinking it was simply a +1 to the Toughness test. So, the Chem-Thrower was pretty good against T4 Goliaths and real good against T3 targets. Not amazing, it still has short range and does not pin. But, pretty good. Now that I know I have to waste an Action to use the Chem Synth boost, making it much more situational to get the +1, the Chem-Thrower goes from pretty good to aight. Respirators would make it generally not worth bringing. Because you have to get suicidally close to use it. Which leaves Eschers without a real Special Weapon. I'm not 100% sold on specialized equipment like Respirators that are only good at neutralizing another gang's signature specialized weapons. Especially if they are universally available. Especially if that is all the other gang has going for it to begin with. Good + Not Good = Why bother?

The balance issues between the gangs are simply self-inflicted by the designers. With better toughness and strength and armor, Goliaths should usually be outnumbered. So, cost more, or have another restriction. The Goliath's Cool stat is either a misprint (in three different places, both rulebooks, and the pre-generated cards), or they simply wanted Goliaths to be the best of all 5 gangs. By a lot. That really looks like a post-playtesting booboo. FAQ to follow. Except, if Specialist Games is as insurgent as it wants us to believe, it may not have the juice to do quick a Mea Culpa like the much more confident mainstream games.
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Liam
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I went for option number two as Gang War is really where my interest lies. 1000 credits doesn't go very far.

I can't really see how you can get into this game and not end up spending some cash down the line on new miniatures.

I suppose you could treat the Goliaths and Escher as your training wheels.

PS: Strongly agree that the Goliaths are currently OP in the base game.
 
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sam newman

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Sybaris wrote:
I play Escher, and currently here's my take on it:

We need 2-3 long range gangers to pin enemies. I tend to prefer lasguns for this as my goal is to hit the enemy and it provides a greater short range bonus. My goal is not to wound the enemy but to pin them down and i don't want them to run out of ammo. This is even more obvious to me if lasguns do indeed cost 5 crédits for the gang.

Our leader should be used at range sadly...while she is a hell vixen in melee, she is far too valuable due to being the only model with a decent Cool stat...and we can't replace her. It really sucks but it seems she's mainly there to keep the gang fighting once it bottles out.

The toxin rule seems to be miswritten, and if it is intended to replace the "to wound roll" then it'll be very useful at the start of a cycle/turf war. In fact, it might make up for the Juve's pathetic Strenght of 2. Since GW-community's tactica imply that it bypasses regular to wound roll, then i'll assume it does until FAQ'ed. I say "good for the beginning" because once people get +T advances it will affect the weapon's usefulness.

That premise done, we need close range gangers, and a bunch of them.

Stiletto Swords and laspistols seems like a great combo for a ganger, while the Stiletto knife seems to be designed for the Juve (making them good in melee). Given the Juve's crappy ballistic skill, the autopistol might be a good idea instead of the laspistol at point blank range.

The biggest question i have right now is for the "specialty" weapons.

Chem Thrower: This weapon, like all gas-based tech, will be good at the start of a campaign, but crappy once people have respirators and +T advances. So if i get one, i'll get it early, if not, i'll probably never do and instead take shotguns. In any case we might get access to a heavy stubber down the road, or flamers.

Plasma Pistol - these might not be necessary at the start of a campaign, but will overtime be really helpful, especially vs Goliaths. Champions in particular enjoy these with their better shooting skill and great melee potential.


Pretty sure the cost for lasgun and las pistol were mixed up, 5 for las pistol 10 for a lasgun as opposed to the 10 for a las pistol and 15 for a lasgun.
 
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ZombieMark wrote:
Toxin replaces the "To Wound" roll. How else would it work? In fact, it has a slightly less chance of wounding a T4 Goliath. But, it takes models directly out of action, without a Serious Injury roll.

I was misplaying Chem Synth, thinking it was simply a +1 to the Toughness test. So, the Chem-Thrower was pretty good against T4 Goliaths and real good against T3 targets. Not amazing, it still has short range and does not pin. But, pretty good. Now that I know I have to waste an Action to use the Chem Synth boost, making it much more situational to get the +1, the Chem-Thrower goes from pretty good to aight. Respirators would make it generally not worth bringing. Because you have to get suicidally close to use it. Which leaves Eschers without a real Special Weapon. I'm not 100% sold on specialized equipment like Respirators that are only good at neutralizing another gang's signature specialized weapons. Especially if they are universally available. Especially if that is all the other gang has going for it to begin with. Good + Not Good = Why bother?

The balance issues between the gangs are simply self-inflicted by the designers. With better toughness and strength and armor, Goliaths should usually be outnumbered. So, cost more, or have another restriction. The Goliath's Cool stat is either a misprint (in three different places, both rulebooks, and the pre-generated cards), or they simply wanted Goliaths to be the best of all 5 gangs. By a lot. That really looks like a post-playtesting booboo. FAQ to follow. Except, if Specialist Games is as insurgent as it wants us to believe, it may not have the juice to do quick a Mea Culpa like the much more confident mainstream games.


Rule as written, the current text of the toxin rule makes it replace the "injury" roll, not the "to wound"...which makes it completely and utterly useless. Most people agree that this is a mistake, but it just adds up to a lot of ??? after reading.

An FAQ would be a nice Christmas gift from them...

And yes i agree that the Goliaths are wrong atm...they do not cost enough to warrant the stats they have. Trouble is, knowing GW, they almost never try to balance their games.
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Lars Ribsy
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Even including the leaked Orlock costs, the Chem-thrower is the most expensive weapon in the game. I've had some limited success with it during the boxed campaign, but something definitely needs to be FAQd about it to bring the cost way down or boost the effectiveness. The Goliaths can currently buy 2 grenade launchers with two types of ammo for 25 credits less than one chem-thrower.

I absolutely love the concept and flavour of the models and the weapons, but most of them are pretty useless right now. A stiletto knife is more expensive and actually worse than a straight up combat knife.
 
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Mark
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Sybaris wrote:
Trouble is, knowing GW, they almost never try to balance their games.

That was the OLD GW. The NEW GW is FAQ happy. 40K has a ton of FAQ's and errata. Humble I-Guard Conscripts have had 4 (count'em 4) FAQ nerfs. In fact too much protesting brings out too much nerfing. Goliaths could end up the worst gang in the game.
 
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Pete Grey
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Out of curiosity, how many people here have assembled their gangs with magnetized arms/bits?
 
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Graham
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petegrey wrote:
Out of curiosity, how many people here have assembled their gangs with magnetized arms/bits?


I magnetised the arms of a couple of the gangers for each gang.

I had a similar conflict as the OP, and then decided the best compromise was to be able swap out shotgun for laspistol & knife, and so on, while keeping the flavour of the gang consistent in the heavies and leaders.

Maybe I will buy more gang minis if this doesn’t give enough flexibility. However, there’s also the Hired Guns that can be added to gangs for extra variety, and that’s far more interesting to me than a bunch a duplicate minis.
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Before getting wrapped around the axle, we need to address an unfortunate, but important consideration. I am a big fan of the game, but I am really not impressed with some production values. Especially, gang construction.

To make a gang for a campaign, one can use the basic rule book. Or, the character cards that come with the basic rule book (some point values are slightly different). Or, the charts in the Gang War supplement. Those GW point values are inconsistent, and in places, radically different (Goliath Rivet Canon and Grenade Launcher are less than half price!). There is also a generic weapons and equipment chart in GW. And, a Legacy Gang pdf with really odd points and stats.

I suppose a mighty powerful Errata/FAQ is headed our way. Till then, I think putting the models together according to a scheme is problematic. I built them per the instructions to match the character cards. But, I have a back up legacy Escher gang for alternates. And, I bought 5 more Goliaths on ebay, because I really like them. Fun to build, fun to paint, and they look great. Some of GW's best models.
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Pete Grey
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ZombieMark wrote:
Before getting wrapped around the axle, we need to address an unfortunate, but important consideration. I am a big fan of the game, but I am really not impressed with some production values. Especially, gang construction.

To make a gang for a campaign, one can use the basic rule book. Or, the character cards that come with the basic rule book (some point values are slightly different). Or, the charts in the Gang War supplement. Those GW point values are inconsistent, and in places, radically different (Goliath Rivet Canon and Grenade Launcher are less than half price!). There is also a generic weapons and equipment chart in GW. And, a Legacy Gang pdf with really odd points and stats.

I suppose a mighty powerful Errata/FAQ is headed our way. Till then, I think putting the models together according to a scheme is problematic. I built them per the instructions to match the character cards. But, I have a back up legacy Escher gang for alternates. And, I bought 5 more Goliaths on ebay, because I really like them. Fun to build, fun to paint, and they look great. Some of GW's best models.


Mark-Your whole post is totally valid! As such, it lands in the crux of my confusion RE: needing to learn more/waiting for GW to get head out of asses, which results in me still wanting to wait to build, thus waiting to play.

So frustrated. yuk

I think I'll just focus on putting together the MDF I just got from Promethium, and maybe finish paining my legacy Van Saars in the interim.

I'm slightly tempted to sell the whole lot and move on. I probably won't. But this options certainly been considered.
 
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Pete Grey
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Hey actually, is it possible to use legacy gangs to play Zone Mortalis game in the box? I could probably cobble together a makeshift Orloch gang (using Catachans) as well as my Van Saars guys.
 
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petegrey wrote:
Hey actually, is it possible to use legacy gangs to play Zone Mortalis game in the box? I could probably cobble together a makeshift Orloch gang (using Catachans) as well as my Van Saars guys.

Sure. Or, on the tabletop. This ain't 40K, where army construction and game plan is dominant . Depending on the scenario, you may not get your whole gang on the board. Depending on the breaks, the breaks might go against you in a ghastly fashion. Two days ago, in my first game with my newly painted Goliaths, my unbreakable Goliath leader broke and ran. And, did not make it to cover, and was gunned down, and went out of action. Bing-Bang-Dammit! Then, things turned REALLY bad. So, once again, New Model Syndrome rears it's freshly painted head.

As for Zonal Mortalis, early this week, to teach my son the New Necromunda system, and ripped right from the pages of Shadow War Kill Team rosters, my son's Space Marine Scouts and my Orks fought an under-the-Armageddon-Underhive fight. Played quite well. Oh, if you tell anyone about my crafty cross-pollination, I'll deny it.
 
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Tom Hill
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I do wonder if the differences with weapon stats and pricing between the RB and GW are deliberate. If the RB is a game for quick one-off battles and GW is intended to be more campaign focussed then I suspect the differnces in price will influence what and when weapons are picked. Old Necromunda used to suffer from new-gang vs experienced-gang, hopefully GW will address some of these things. Or just change them for other issues.

I suspect we'll see an FAQ soon, Christmas and New year and the open day on the 6th will have probably delayed it.
 
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I still don't understand how Goliath pay so little for the stats they start with...Cool, toughness, strenght are some of the most useful stats, and the later are also the most valuable advances in terms of gang rating, so why such a small diffence in recruiting costs?

Maybe i see too much into that, but it doesn't feel normal. If the goliath ganger would cost 80, i wouldn't even think it wrong O.o
 
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After building the two basic gangs (6 per side), I just started building the rest to match the cards given. But I just discovered there aren't enough bits to build all of them. There's enough to build all 10 Escher, but only 8 of the 10 Goliath.

So now I have to choose my last two Goliath builds between Rork, Brakk, Kruger, and Bonesnapper. Any suggestions?

I know there's only so much room on a sprue, but it would have been nice to have the bits for all the character cards given in the box. They were also all displayed in White Dwarf, so I always assumed up to this point that there were 10 figures per gang.


EDIT: ignore this silly waffling, I found the missing bits.
 
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Tom Hill
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Not sure I understand. The box contains a guide for building all 10 Goliath characters. It sounds like your sprue is missing 2 bodies?
 
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alex bermudez
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Decar wrote:
I do wonder if the differences with weapon stats and pricing between the RB and GW are deliberate.


It's hard to tell, with the rulebook being vague on some points and having a lot of inconsistencies. Heck, if you believe the Gangs of Legend doc, a Bolter does 1 damage while a Bolt Pistol does 2.

These guys didn't put a lot of time into proofing.
 
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Tom Hill
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The Legends document is a simple placeholder, I wouldn't even bother with it for now. No doubt they put it together quickly as a small supplement. They really shouldn't have bothered, ultimately it will superseded.

Here are the Goliath and Escher gang suggestions. I had no difficultly following the sheet to create 10 Goliath gangers:



 
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