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Subject: Monster AI Quiz rss

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Karl Roe
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As folks are getting their 2nd edition copies there seems to be a resurgence of questions about Monster AI. I thought I'd start a quiz for people to test their understanding. Most of these questions are based on similar or identical ones from posts on the old FAQ:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1687146/official-faq-old

Feel free to add to these, discuss, or disagree about answers. I'm not really an expert.

For all questions:
M = Monster
C = Player character
C1 has lower/faster initiative than C2, etc.
Brown hex = Obstacle
Green "T" hex = damage trap
Black = wall
White = open hex
Assume attacks are melee and also Monsters do not have Flying unless otherwise indicated.

(I'm posting questions one at a time since I couldn't get the quiz maker to work with multiple questions.)

Update
Sadgit has converted this quiz into a Geek List: Gloomhaven Rules Quiz

It includes all of these questions with the updated answers to questions 10 and 12, plus a couple bonus questions. Thanks, Sadgit!
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Karl Roe
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Question 1
Quiz
M1 is up and has Move 1, Attack. How does it move?
Moves to "a"
Moves to "b"
Moves to "a" or "b", players decide
Stays put
    13927 answers
Quiz created by Broaster House


Explanation of answer:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
To get to its target, M1 has to move 3 hexes to either the hex NW or NE of C1. Moving to "a" or "b" shortens that path to 2 hexes, so it does so.
Hex "a" and "b" are equivalent so players can choose which one it goes to.
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Karl Roe
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Question 2
M1 is up and has Move 1, Attack. How does it move?
Moves to "a"
Moves to "b"
Moves to "a" or "b", players decide
Stays put
    13360 answers
Quiz created by Broaster House


Explanation:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
What makes this different than question 1 is that the shortest path for M1 to attack its target is to move 3 hexes through its allies to the hex directly north of C1. Moving to "a" or "b" results in it still being 3 hexes away from its target. Since this is no closer (and it can't land on the hex with M2) it doesn't move.
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Karl Roe
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Question 3
M1 is up and has Move 2, Attack. What does it do?
Moves to "a" or "b" (players decide) and attacks C2
Moves to "c" and attacks C1
    13129 answers
Quiz created by Broaster House


Explanation:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
M1 first chooses its focus. It takes 2 movement to get to either C1 or C2, so the tie-breaker is whichever enemy is closer "by the crow flies", not counting obstacles. C2 is closer by this measure, so M1 focuses on C2. (Initiative is only used as a second tie-breaker, which isn't needed here.) Since "a" and "b" are equivalent, players choose.
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Donny Schuijers
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Broaster House wrote:
Question 1
Quiz
M1 is up and has Move 1, Attack. How does it move?
Moves to "a"
Moves to "b"
Moves to "a" or "b", players decide
Stays put
    13927 answers
Quiz created by Broaster House


I'm going to have to disagree right form the getgo with the Correct Answer. :whistle:

Also, pretty sure that Q3 has the wrong Correct Answer..
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Karl Roe
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Quiz
Question 4
M1 is up and has Move 2, Attack. How does it move?
Moves to "a"
Moves through the trap to "b"
Stays put
    12601 answers
Quiz created by Broaster House


Explanation:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The shortest path for M1 to get to its target (and also the only path that doesn't spring a trap) is to move 3 hexes through its allies to the hex north of C1. Since it can't get there, or even shorten that path, with the 2 movement it has, it stays put.
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Karl Roe
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Question 5
M1 is up and has Move 3, Attack. How does it move?
Moves to "a"
Moves onto the trap
Stays put
    12312 answers
Quiz created by Broaster House


Explanation:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
M1 cannot move through its enemy C1. Nor can it stand where M3 is to attack. So its only path to the target is the long way around through the trap. It shortens that path as much as it can with its movement, which puts it on the trap. Sorry about that, M1.
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Karl Roe
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Question 6
M1 has Move 2, Attack. How does it move?
Moves to "a"
Moves to "b"
Moves to "a" or "b", players decide
Moves to "c"
Moves to "a", "b" or "c", players decide
    11576 answers
Quiz created by Broaster House


Explanation:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
This is similar to the previous question in that there is no path for M1 to get to its target other than the long way around. Again M3 is in its way. So rather than heading in a direction that it can't attack from
("c"), it embarks on the long journey around the obstacles. Since both the east and west route are 11 hexes long, they are equivalent and players can choose which path it takes.
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Mathue Faulkner
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This would be great as a Geeklist so that discussion can be focused on particular questions.
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Karl Roe
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Question 7
M1 is up and has Move 2, Attack Range 2. How does it move?
Moves through the trap to "b"
Stays put
    11216 answers
Quiz created by Broaster House


Explanation:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
This setup is superficially similar to question 4, with the key difference that the path through M1's allies is now blocked by an obstacle. The only hex from which M1 can attack is 2 hexes north of C1, from where it can range C1 across the obstacle. And the only path to get to that spot is through the trap.
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Donny Schuijers
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mfaulk80 wrote:
This would be great as a Geeklist so that discussion can be focused on particular questions.


I second this.. :whistle:
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Baker Odom
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SpiritReacher wrote:
mfaulk80 wrote:
This would be great as a Geeklist so that discussion can be focused on particular questions.


I second this.. whistle


Yeah please restart this as a geeklist and provide the link on this thread when you do.
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Karl Roe
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Question 8
M1 is up and has Move 2, Attack Range 2, Target 3. What does it do?
Stays put and attacks C1 and then attacks C2 with disadvantage
Moves to "a" and attacks C1
Moves to "b" and attacks C2 and C1
Moves to "c" and attacks C2
Moves to "d" and attacks C2 and attacks C1 with disadvantage
Moves to "e" and attacks both C2 and C1 with disadvantage
Moves to "f" and attacks C2 with disadvantage and attacks C1 and C3
Moves into the trap and attacks C2, attacks C1 with disadvantage, and attacks C3
    10709 answers
Quiz created by Broaster House


Explanation:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The rules state that a monster will maximize its attack on its primary target before worrying about other targets. In this case its primary focus is C2, since C2 is closest to it. M1 will therefore prioritize attacking C2 without disadvantage over being able to hit a third target (C3). The only way for M1 to hit all three targets AND make sure it hits C2 without disadvantage is to stand on the trap. However, monsters will only stand on a trap if there is no other way to focus on an enemy, which doesn't apply here. (There is another reason M1 would not stand there, but I'll save that for later.) So M1 gives up on hitting C3 this time. As for C1 and C2, there is only one spot where M1 can attack both of them without disadvantage and that is "b".
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Miles Hubble
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On question 3, why doesn't it attack C1? The characters are equidistant so the monster will attack the lowest initiative.
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Arthur Janicek
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In Q3, C2 is closer by proximity. So it focuses on C2 even tho the path is equidistant, the second criteria for determining focus is which is closer by proximity. That's C2.
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Karl Roe
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Question 9
M1 is up and has Move 2, Attack Range 2, Target 3.
M1 is also Muddled.
What does it do?
Stays put and attacks C2 and C1
Moves to "a" and attacks C1
Moves to "b" and attacks C2 and C1
Moves to "c" and attacks C2
Moves to "d" and attacks C2 and C1
Moves to "e" and attacks C2 and C1
Moves to "f" and attacks C2, C2 and C3
Moves onto the trap and attacks C1, C2 and C3
    2294 answers
Quiz created by Broaster House

Edit: Yes, there's a typo in the 7th choice. Should say "attacks C2, C1 and C3"

Explanation:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The whole reason that M1 did not attack C3 in the previous question was to make sure it didn't have disadvantage when attacking its primary target,
C2. Now that M1 is Muddled, it can move to "f" and still attack C2 with maximum effect. It will have disadvantage no matter how it attacks C2. Therefore "f" becomes the attractive destination, from which M1 can attack 3 targets.

A simpler and more common application of this idea would be when a Muddled monster with a ranged attack is adjacent to its focus, it would not move back they way it would if were not Muddled.
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Karl Roe
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Question 10
M1 is up and has Move 2, Attack Range 2, Target 3.
M1 also has Flying.
What does it do?
Stays put and attacks C2 with disadvantage and attacks C1
Moves to "a" and attacks C1
Moves to "b" and attacks C2 and C1
Moves to "c" and attacks C2
Moves to "d" and attacks C2 and attacks C1 with disadvantage
Moves to "e" and attacks both C2 and C1 with disadvantage
Moves to "f" and attacks C2 with disadvantage and attacks C1 and C3
Moves over the trap (without springing it) and attacks C2, attacks C1 with disadvantage, and attacks C3
    2388 answers
Quiz created by Broaster House


Explanation:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I'll start by saying this question has generated considerable debate.
The correct answer here hinges on a ruling in the old FAQ from a couple weeks back:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1687146/official-faq-old/pa...
This ruling is about how monsters prioritize multiple targets, and it also applies to question 12 below.

Quote:
Re: Official FAQ
Heard back from Isaac with answers to some open questions:

...

After a monster prioritizes attacking its focused target (and moving to lose disadvantage), how does it prioritize additional targets when attempting to maximize its attack?
It follows the focus and movement rules to determine it's next target and to maximize its attack on that target without reducing the effectiveness of the attack on the 1st target, then repeating the process for each subsequent target


A later post even clarified with an example, similar to this question, where a monster preferred to forgo attacking a third target rather than accept disadvantage on the second target.

In this question, although M1 could hover over the trap without harm, doing so would cause disadvantage on its second target (C1). According to the ruling quoted above it would first make sure it could hit C1 without disadvantage and then worry about hitting C3. But in this case there is no way to hit C3 without accepting disadvantage with one of its original two targets.


UPDATE:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
A new FAQ ruling on 12-19-17 changes the answer on this question.

aflorin wrote:
New FAQ entry:

After determining focus, how exactly does a monster move to maximize its attack on additional targets?
It will determine where to move by prioritizing the following before moving:
1st - Lose disadvantage on its primary focus
2nd - Gain as many extra targets as possible using the focus rules from its current position to determine each target's priority
3rd - Lose disadvantage on the extra targets (all equal priority, players decide ties)

This should clear up the open questions.


With this interpretation the correct answer should be the last option:

Moves over the trap (without springing it) and attacks C2, attacks C1 with disadvantage, and attacks C3
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Karl Roe
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Question 11
M1 is up and has Move 1, Attack Range 2. What does it do?
Moves to "b" and attacks C1
Moves to "a" or "b" (players decide) and attacks C2 with disadvantage
Moves onto the trap and attacks C2
Stays put and attacks C1
Stays put and attacks C2 with disadvantage
    9161 answers
Quiz created by Broaster House


Explanation:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Since M1 can focus on a target without stepping on the trap, it won't step on the trap. It's focus is C2 since C2 is closest to it. Since there is no way to avoid disadvantage with only 1 movement, it accepts disadvantage and stays put.
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Miles Hubble
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Daemon6 wrote:
In Q3, C2 is closer by proximity. So it's correct.


It doesn't matter that it's physically closer. Monsters don't calculate focus as if they were flying. They only worry about how many moves it takes to reach the nearest character, which in this case is two no matter what.
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Donny Schuijers
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Daemon6 wrote:
In Q3, C2 is closer by proximity. So it's correct.


Quote from the rulebook:

Quote:
Note: Determining the enemy closest to a monster is not necessarily about which enemy is physically closer, but rather which enemy can be brought into attack range in the fewest number of movements


As you can see; Even though C2 is physically closer, it doesn't matter. Since by movement C1 is just as close as C2.
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Karl Roe
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Question 12
M1 is up and has Move 2, Attack Range 2, Target 2. What does it do?
Moves to "a" and attacks C2 and C3
Moves to "b" and attacks C2 and C3
Moves to "b" and attacks C1 and C2
Moves to "a" or "b" (players decide) and in either case attacks C2 and C3
Moves to "a" and attacks C2 and C3 OR moves to "b" and attacks C2 and C1 (players decide)
Moves to "b" and attacks C1 and C2 OR moves to "c" and attacks C1 and C3 (players decide)
    2315 answers
Quiz created by Broaster House


Explanation:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The debate that this question has generated centers around whether the monster would choose the focus of its second target only after moving to lose disadvantage on the first target. Again this ruling from the FAQ suggests this is in fact the case:
Quote:
Re: Official FAQ
Heard back from Isaac with answers to some open questions:

...

After a monster prioritizes attacking its focused target (and moving to lose disadvantage), how does it prioritize additional targets when attempting to maximize its attack?
It follows the focus and movement rules to determine it's next target and to maximize its attack on that target without reducing the effectiveness of the attack on the 1st target, then repeating the process for each subsequent target


Given this, M1 would first move away from C2 to avoid disadvantage. In order to still have a second target it needs to move to either "a" or "b". Then it would choose its second target. If goes to "a" then its second target can only be C3. If it goes to "b" then C2 and C3 are tied for closest second target, but the initiative tie-breaker goes to C2.

Should there be a future ruling that this interpretation is wrong, and that secondary targets are focused on before any movement happens, then the 4th option for this question would be correct instead. I'll be sure to update here if that becomes the case. (More likely there will be a ruling to stop posting quizzes about such minutiae on a BGG thread and just play the game!)

As a final thought..
If secondary targets were to be chosen before moving to maximize the attack on the primary target (which I think is not the case), what would happen in this case where M1 has Move 2, Attack Range 3, Target 2?

Clearly it would first focus on C1 and need to move to the left to attack. But what about the second target? Either M1 would have to "change its mind" about focusing on C2 once it moved away from C2, and then attack C4 instead. Or else M1 would forgo attacking C4 because it still "remembers" focusing on C2. Both of these seem awkward.


UPDATE:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
New FAQ ruling on 12-19-17 changes the answer to this question.

aflorin wrote:
New FAQ entry:

After determining focus, how exactly does a monster move to maximize its attack on additional targets?
It will determine where to move by prioritizing the following before moving:
1st - Lose disadvantage on its primary focus
2nd - Gain as many extra targets as possible using the focus rules from its current position to determine each target's priority
3rd - Lose disadvantage on the extra targets (all equal priority, players decide ties)

This should clear up the open questions.


This means that the correct answer should be the fourth option:

Moves to "a" or "b" (players decide) and in either case attacks C2 and C3
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Karl Roe
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Question 13
M1 is up and has Move 3, Attack. What does it do?
Moves to "a"
Moves through the trap to "b" and attacks C3
Moves to "c"
Moves to "d"
    8541 answers
Quiz created by Broaster House


Explanation:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
M1 first finds its focus. There is no need to step on a trap since there is a path to an enemy without doing so. Therefore the trap is effectively an obstacle. This means that the path to C3 is 5 hexes. The path to C1 to move 4 hexes, including through M2. The path to C2 is also 4 hexes, passing through M2 and M3. C1 and C2 are then tied for shortest path. The tie-breaker then goes to C2 since it is closer "by the crow flies" (not counting obstacles). So M1 will focus on C2 and move along that path. But its third and final movement is blocked by M3 so it stops short of that at "c". Using the last movement to reach "d" does not get it any close to its target C2.
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Ben Martell
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SpiritReacher wrote:
Daemon6 wrote:
In Q3, C2 is closer by proximity. So it's correct.


Quote from the rulebook:

Quote:
Note: Determining the enemy closest to a monster is not necessarily about which enemy is physically closer, but rather which enemy can be brought into attack range in the fewest number of movements


As you can see; Even though C2 is physically closer, it doesn't matter. Since by movement C1 is just as close as C2.


That's incorrect. The rule book says that (page 29)

Quote:
In the case where a monster can move the same number of spaces to get within range of enemy figures, proximity from the monster's current position (ie the number of hexes the monster is away, not counting through walls) is then checked as a tie-breaker for considering the closest.


After number of spaces moved, the first tie breaker is physical proximity, including counting through hexes with obstacles. Only after that does initiative come in.
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Donny Schuijers
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Broaster House wrote:
Quiz
Question 12
M1 is up and has Move 2, Attack Range 2, Target 2. What does it do?
Moves to "a" and attacks C2 and C3
Moves to "b" and attacks C2 and C3
Moves to "b" and attacks C1 and C2
Moves to "a" or "b" (players decide) and in either case attacks C2 and C3
Moves to "a" and attacks C2 and C3 OR moves to "b" and attacks C2 and C1 (players decide)
Moves to "b" and attacks C1 and C2 OR moves to "c" and attacks C1 and C3 (players decide)
    2315 answers
Quiz created by Broaster House


Also Wrong "Correct Answer"
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Donny Schuijers
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benmartell wrote:
SpiritReacher wrote:
Daemon6 wrote:
In Q3, C2 is closer by proximity. So it's correct.


Quote from the rulebook:

Quote:
Note: Determining the enemy closest to a monster is not necessarily about which enemy is physically closer, but rather which enemy can be brought into attack range in the fewest number of movements


As you can see; Even though C2 is physically closer, it doesn't matter. Since by movement C1 is just as close as C2.


That's incorrect. The rule book says that (page 29)

Quote:
In the case where a monster can move the same number of spaces to get within range of enemy figures, proximity from the monster's current position (ie the number of hexes the monster is away, not counting through walls) is then checked as a tie-breaker for considering the closest.


After number of spaces moved, the first tie breaker is physical proximity, including counting through hexes with obstacles. Only after that does initiative come in.


I don't have this rule in my book.. Do you perhaps have the 2nd edition?
In that case; my bad. I stand corrected. :modest:
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