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Subject: 1.0 -> 1.5 rss

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Stefan Godot
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Hi Survivors, just a little question:
Is there an existing list from all changes ( 1.0 to 1.5 rulesbook^^)? ...and where can I find it?

Thanks!
 
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Kostas K.
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http://www.kingdomdeath.com/wp/upgrade-to-1-5-edition/

Changes in the rulebook are too many to mention and afaik they are not compiled anywhere.
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Nick Wirtz
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AFAIK, the most notable changes that you'll miss if you're continuing a game are Crystal Skin and Saviors: both mechanics have changed fairly notably.

Other than that, if you replace all the cards and don't assume things when interacting with old tables, you should be fine.

Also, the Bone Witch is substantially different.
 
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TechRaptor Travis
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spiralingcadaver wrote:
AFAIK, the most notable changes that you'll miss if you're continuing a game are Crystal Skin and Saviors: both mechanics have changed fairly notably.

Other than that, if you replace all the cards and don't assume things when interacting with old tables, you should be fine.

Also, the Bone Witch is substantially different.


IMO the change to Doomed should be pointed out to everyone who asks about changes from 1.3. It's major.
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Alessio Massuoli
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NerdyRaptor wrote:

IMO the change to Doomed should be pointed out to everyone who asks about changes from 1.3. It's major.


Yup.
And also, Special Showdowns are not "immediately" anymore, but "at this precise step during settlement phase".
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Scott Cantor
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t3clis wrote:

And also, Special Showdowns are not "immediately" anymore, but "at this precise step during settlement phase".


I've been wondering about that. Is there some substantiated evidence that that's intended to apply to the older expansions? So you can officially do the Develop step for that year before you do the SS?
 
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Nick Wirtz
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I've been using the general rule of thumb that if it's contradictory, the newer one is probably right, but that's just playing it by ear. The Slenderman option obviously can't be played that way because it becomes a non-choice, but it's odd that they'd so concretely define it, if things don't follow those rules.
 
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Scott Cantor
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spiralingcadaver wrote:
I've been using the general rule of thumb that if it's contradictory, the newer one is probably right, but that's just playing it by ear. The Slenderman option obviously can't be played that way because it becomes a non-choice, but it's odd that they'd so concretely define it, if things don't follow those rules.


What's different about the Slenderman case? It says "Immediately depart for a special showdown" like the others I've seen (e.g. Manhunter, Lion Knight).

I may not really have understood Forgotten Fear very clearly, but it seemed as though in return for reducing some of the bad outcomes, I also got to trade a standard Nemesis Encounter for a Special Showdown, so I could also Hunt. That seemed odd, but it was pretty literally saying that.
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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Well, the standard nemesis encounter becomes an encounter with the Slenderman, so forgotten fear makes you take your chance immediately or wait to prepare, then fight the Slenderman as a regular nemesis. Since the special showdown is only advantageous, the only difference it makes is that you depart immediately. In 1.31 you did exactly that. Now, however, you have a time and a place to do special showdowns, so I'm not so sure. Of course, that one is probably intended another way. But even in that case, so does the manhunter showdown (heck, it goes first!). So, these are two with weird behaviors?
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Scott Cantor
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t3clis wrote:
Well, the standard nemesis encounter becomes an encounter with the Slenderman, so forgotten fear makes you take your chance immediately or wait to prepare, then fight the Slenderman as a regular nemesis. Since the special showdown is only advantageous, the only difference it makes is that you depart immediately. In 1.31 you did exactly that. Now, however, you have a time and a place to do special showdowns, so I'm not so sure. Of course, that one is probably intended another way. But even in that case, so does the manhunter showdown (heck, it goes first!). So, these are two with weird behaviors?


Since those were the two I’ve actually played with so far, I was immediately suspicious of the new rule applying. I’m about to hit my third (Lion Knight).

I guess I figured that the additional Hunt plus negating some bad event effects made it already close to a no-brainer to do the Special Showdown with the Slenderman, so it was already not that hard of a choice even under the older rules. I guess situationally it might be.
 
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Nick Wirtz
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Essentially, you're gambling that you'll be as able to beat it before the settlement phase as after (crafting, kids, shrine, etc.). There are definitely times when that matters. I think the last time, we took the risk when, if we'd waited, we could have added something like 13 armor to our party (completing an armor set and adding a shield), which is hardly paltry in the early-mid game.
 
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Scott Cantor
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spiralingcadaver wrote:
Essentially, you're gambling that you'll be as able to beat it before the settlement phase as after (crafting, kids, shrine, etc.). There are definitely times when that matters. I think the last time, we took the risk when, if we'd waited, we could have added something like 13 armor to our party (completing an armor set and adding a shield), which is hardly paltry in the early-mid game.


Fair. But we're still left with the original question and I don't see any basis to know what his intentions are here.

Myself, I guess I tended to think the order of the SS on the list of steps is more loose than prescriptive and is mainly meant to illustrate what step you come *back* to (i.e. that you don't update the timeline or get more endeavors) than when you actually start it. In which case the original suggestion that it's been moved to after Develop is in fact not true in a lot of typical cases.
 
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Nick Wirtz
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It's a numbered step. Intention is ambiguous, but its current placement is quite explicit.
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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Yup. Unfortunately, still silence on the subject (I tweeted Adam yesterday). Well, I guess I'd never said that, but since Adam told us to do so until faq is posted... Rule of death?

The rules are contradictory (rulebook says you innovate first, then special showdowns, while Slenderman book says you depart immediately during the story event), so you could decide by rule of death without too many complains.
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Scott Cantor
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t3clis wrote:
Yup. Unfortunately, still silence on the subject (I tweeted Adam yesterday). Well, I guess I'd never said that, but since Adam told us to do so until faq is posted... Rule of death?

The rules are contradictory (rulebook says you innovate first, then special showdowns, while Slenderman book says you depart immediately during the story event), so you could decide by rule of death without too many complains.


I'm not that anguished by the question, I was just responding to the apparent certainty with which you originally phrased that answer, sounds like it's generally an unknown at this point.
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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The certainty is not mine, is the written word (we have a saying in Italian that fits perfectly, but I think it will be completely lost in translation). I also think (about myself, I hope that nobody takes offense in this) that ellipsis and multiple explanation marks only make what one writes unreadable, so there is really not a lot of room for emotions, apart the occasional "I think" or "I believe".

However, Poots is a RAW guy, and RAW you now have a definite point in which perform special showdowns. 1.5 is the new ruleset, and it makes sense (but it is the uncertain part) that it applies on everything.

So far, if you risk to reveal the horror instead of waiting for the encounter, you basically gain one lantern year worth of hunts in exchange of the endeavors for returning survivors/Graves (which you will recoup anyway in the actual hunt). RAW there is not a lot to discuss, but sure it feels cheap.
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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Oh, I also want to add that, while being a better version and fixing some cheap loopholes, I have the distinct impression that the game got remarkably easier with 1.5 (see the ease with which we are cutting through our current campaign, it's linked in my profile), even in the face of draws that in 1.31 would have wrecked your settlement. So, it might be a change made on purpose, albeit clumsy in execution.
 
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Scott Cantor
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t3clis wrote:
Oh, I also want to add that, while being a better version and fixing some cheap loopholes, I have the distinct impression that the game got remarkably easier with 1.5 (see the ease with which we are cutting through our current campaign, it's linked in my profile), even in the face of draws that in 1.31 would have wrecked your settlement. So, it might be a change made on purpose, albeit clumsy in execution.


I'm not as experienced obviously but I do get the sense there's some of that intention behind the changes, so this would fit that general idea.

With regard to my confusion, it has thrown me a little bit in trying to understand your answers trying to distinguish between "you know for a fact, because Adam or a FAQ has said so" and "you're applying a judgement based on experience", sorry if that's caused some noise. Thanks for clarifying.
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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Yup, I tend to pose accepted conclusions from before here as if they were facts. Anyway, the only proven facts are the one I reported on the unofficial clarification thread on the rules forum... those always have the source to be checked

The rest is (can be) reasonable, but it was only the conclusion of a previous discussion or something like that
 
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Chester
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t3clis wrote:
Oh, I also want to add that, while being a better version and fixing some cheap loopholes, I have the distinct impression that the game got remarkably easier with 1.5 (see the ease with which we are cutting through our current campaign, it's linked in my profile), even in the face of draws that in 1.31 would have wrecked your settlement. So, it might be a change made on purpose, albeit clumsy in execution.

As a newcomer I’m very curious. What is easier?
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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In my opinion, 1.5 feels easier.
I began argumenting this one, but since it is of topic and a bit longish, will do only when asked.

I want only to say that 1.5 is an improvement and that most of the changes are really really good. Making the game easier is a byproduct of removing some "wrong" choices, and I can live with that. I will always feel weird at not having any dead to Plague at ly7, without even having it recurring, as well as the Bone witch being beneficial and not returning, but that's a good thing.

It also indirectly answers to all the people who want to alter event balancing by adding, editing and removing checks and controls that are there for a very specific reason.
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