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Subject: First Play: Some Questions and Thoughts rss

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Christopher Clark
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Just finished our first play of Gloomhaven! Before playing, I had read the rules multiple times over several months and followed the rules forum consistently so I felt prepared. Because I was teaching it to my husband who does not read rules and relies on me to teach him games, we broke it up into two sessions. Last night, we selected characters, purchased items, did a city and road event and then played about three rounds in the first room of Scenario 1. We finished the rest of the scenario this afternoon. I am playing the Mindthief and my husband selected the Spellweaver

Also, we played on Level 0 to keep it nice and easy. We ended up winning just as we were both about to face exhaustion. I had the opportunity to kill the final archer with a big melee attack and I drew the dreaded Null Card. My husband then lined up his ranged attack and needed to draw +1 or better to kill it off and he drew 2X! It was an exciting finish.

One question and one observation:

Question: I am still a bit fuzzy about the Mindthief's Augments, particularly with respect to how they interact with Rests. So, I played "The Mind's Weakness" early on, which gives +2 Attack for Melee Attacks and continues indefinitely. When I rest (either long or short) can I choose whether to add that card to the pool of discarded cards from which a lost card will be selected? Or is it required that it be included and, if it is not selected as the lost card, do I return it to my hand or to the Persistent Ability section of my player area? I basically left it in play and did not include it as a discard when I was performing rests, but I am not sure that was correct and I can't seem to find the definitive answer.

Observation: My second question is not really about the rules but more of an observation about how the first scenario played out. We defeated the last archer in the doorway between Room 2 and 3. It seemed like it would be very difficult for us to actually get into that room and get to the back of the room to get the treasure (and all of the nice money laying on the ground). After we opened the door, the Archers and the Living Bones started moving and basically forced us to remain out of the third room and draw them out. But maybe that was all just because of the monster ability cards that we drew. Thoughts?

I will probably have some more questions but we both really enjoyed our first play. Thanks for any help!
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Alex Florin
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You may optionally move cards in the Active area to their appropriate piles at will, including to resolve rests. They remain in those piles until recovered into your hand through the normal rules

Remember that monsters only move and/or attack if their ability card says to move and/or attack. Often monster's won't move in their turn because their card doesn't say move.
 
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Christopher Clark
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aflorin wrote:
You may optionally move cards in the Active area to their appropriate piles at will, including to resolve rests. They remain in those piles until recovered into your hand through the normal rules

Remember that monsters only move and/or attack if their ability card says to move and/or attack. Often monster's won't move in their turn because their card doesn't say move.


Thanks for the clarification on the Mindthief ability. That was the way I was playing it! We did remember that a monster does not move unless the ability card indicates movement. It seemed that no movement happened frequently in Rooms 1 and 2 and then the monsters were consistently drawing movement in the third room which basically prevented us from getting into the room.
 
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Fito R
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It seems weird that Archers would move all the way out to the doorway. Did you all open the room then move back out? That's.... well, it's an interesting tactic, but as you can see, not always effective. Having a Jump or two can be a lifesaver in this situation. Also, remember that monsters that have Range will normally not use up all their movement, since they will use the least possible movement until they can fire.

Finally, Spellweaver+Mindthief is possibly the most difficult combination to make work for a two player party. Not impossible, but you will have some hardships and need to get very creative very often. Good luck!
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Christopher Clark
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Joou wrote:
It seems weird that Archers would move all the way out to the doorway. Did you all open the room then move back out? That's.... well, it's an interesting tactic, but as you can see, not always effective. Having a Jump or two can be a lifesaver in this situation. Also, remember that monsters that have Range will normally not use up all their movement, since they will use the least possible movement until they can fire.

Finally, Spellweaver+Mindthief is possibly the most difficult combination to make work for a two player party. Not impossible, but you will have some hardships and need to get very creative very often. Good luck!


Yes, I opened the door a bit prematurely and did back out of it which prevented us from getting the treasure.

There were so many opinions about which combos were better or worse so we just went with the characters we each wanted to play.
 
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Chris Willott
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You may have had rotten luck with monster draws foiling your plans:

My wife and I played one scenario 4 times:
- the first time was just too hard for our level and equipment,
- the second time was just a little too hard (final enemy down to 5 when I exhausted),
- the third time we had both leveled up and the monsters didn't, but they swarmed and we didn't even survive the first room,
- and the 4th time (no change to levels or equipment) was a cakewalk: my wife didn't even take damage in the first room, and I barely did.

You may also need to optimize your card management: unless you really need to, you should avoid playing lost abilities early on -- every card lost in the first hand reduces your number of turns by 7 or 8!

As a mindthief, I tend to always count my discard+hand before resting: if the number is even, I move any augments to the discard pile, so that after losing one I will have an even number again. If it's odd, I usually keep my augment in play.

As the spellweaver, deciding when to use vs lose gets an extra layer of trickiness, because you can recover all of your lost cards once. It's best to do that when the lost pile is as big as possible, but if you wait too long, you might not have enough cards to avoid damage at a critical time.



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Jonathan Politis
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RoccoTerrier wrote:
Question: I am still a bit fuzzy about the Mindthief's Augments, particularly with respect to how they interact with Rests. So, I played "The Mind's Weakness" early on, which gives +2 Attack for Melee Attacks and continues indefinitely. When I rest (either long or short) can I choose whether to add that card to the pool of discarded cards from which a lost card will be selected? Or is it required that it be included and, if it is not selected as the lost card, do I return it to my hand or to the Persistent Ability section of my player area? I basically left it in play and did not include it as a discard when I was performing rests, but I am not sure that was correct and I can't seem to find the definitive answer.

It took me a little while to realize something with the augments. If you leave the augment in play the entire scenario, you actually limit your number of turns. Without augments, you get 25 turns. But by playing an augment before your first rest and leaving it in play, you get 21. It's just like playing a 'lost' card before your first rest.

So instead, whenever the mindthief rests, you should check how many cards you'll have after the rest. If it's an odd number, you should also discard the augment to recover it. if you'll have an even number, you can leave the augment in play without losing a turn.
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Darren Nakamura
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RoccoTerrier wrote:
Observation: My second question is not really about the rules but more of an observation about how the first scenario played out. We defeated the last archer in the doorway between Room 2 and 3. It seemed like it would be very difficult for us to actually get into that room and get to the back of the room to get the treasure (and all of the nice money laying on the ground). After we opened the door, the Archers and the Living Bones started moving and basically forced us to remain out of the third room and draw them out. But maybe that was all just because of the monster ability cards that we drew. Thoughts?


I think it's pretty common for people to miss that treasure chest the first time through. The way the room is set up, there are two single-hex choke points (the hex between the tables and the hex of the doorway), and the Living Bones are almost certainly going to clog them up.

Second time through, you know what you're up against, so you can save a big move (+Jump) to get there. Remember, the scenario ends at the end of the round when the victory condition is achieved, so it is possible to have one character kill the last enemy then have the other character make a dash for the chest.
 
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Christopher Clark
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Thanks all!

One more question: Because we finished the scenario successfully, we should each receive Bonus Experience, correct? Bonus experience is awarded with every successful scenario (even though it is not mentioned on the individual page of the scenario book)?

 
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Christiaan G
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RoccoTerrier wrote:
Thanks all!

One more question: Because we finished the scenario successfully, we should each receive Bonus Experience, correct? Bonus experience is awarded with every successful scenario (even though it is not mentioned on the individual page of the scenario book)?



That's correct.
 
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Diane Mountford
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I find myself checking the chart on p. 15 of the v2 rulebook before and after each scenario, to make sure I have the correct monster level and trap damage, then coin exchange rate and bonus XP numbers for the level we're playing.

I'm even in a different city than my game and I can confidently tell you that this chart is on p. 15.
 
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Robert Stewart
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DMountford wrote:
I find myself checking the chart on p. 15 of the v2 rulebook before and after each scenario, to make sure I have the correct monster level and trap damage, then coin exchange rate and bonus XP numbers for the level we're playing.

I'm even in a different city than my game and I can confidently tell you that this chart is on p. 15.


It's also on p. 52 (also known as the back cover) for ease of reference (though with somewhat abbreviated column headings).
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