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Champions of Midgard» Forums » General

Subject: Is This Game Really Better than Lords of Waterdeep? rss

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Gustavo Sanchez
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Tom Vasel said the expansions elevated it above LoW, and since I love LoW (with the exp.), you can imagine my interest was piqued!

If you think it is better, can you explain why?

Also, is the game harder to teach than LoW?
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Atnier Rodriguez
United States
Monroe
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I love Lords of Waterdeep and have played it many times, while I have only played Champions with expansions once, but that one time was absolutely wonderful.

Champions beats Waterdeep in looks and theme (fantasy Nordic), while it injects fun and a bit of tension with dice rolling.

Waterdeep is more Euro-y, so it may be a bit tighter in what you can predictably plan for, and I do enjoy how the Intrigue cards give you choice of aiding at least one other players or letting the other players make the choice of how much to aid you. The mandatory quests could be annoying for some, but knowing they exist, you just keep them in mind and hopefully you don't have players that just target one particular adversary.

I'm not getting rid of Waterdeep, so Champions is not making it obsolete, but Champions does seem more fun and more splashy on the table, though it may take longer to play due to dice rolling and dice-based commentary (bragging, mockery, woohoos, etc.)

Do give it a try. I vacilated on playing the base game because I was not sure how much fun it would really be, but once the expansions came out, I could not wait and I'm glad that's how I experienced the game the first time.
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Bert VanEssen
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Highlands Ranch
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I have both and love both! I think for most people it comes down to the dice rolling.
There's no real luck in Waterdeep, so it plays more like a Euro. You take quests, place your workers and complete the quests.
Champions has that press your luck feel with the warriors. Load them on a boat, roll for the fight and good luck! You can mitigate bad rolls to some extent, but the best players are just the right level of aggressive.

I think Waterdeep is slightly easier to teach. But they are so close, it really comes down to those dice for which one is better.
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Gustavo Sanchez
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Thanks guys. I have noooo problem with dice

I'm going through a purge right now, and ended up selling my still in shrink copy of CoM just cause I never got around to playing it. I may have to keep an eye out for it.

Does it ever go on sale? What's a good price for it? What about the expansions?
 
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Jason Brown
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Alexandria
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I like my euros to have some theme, so CoM beats LoW every time if I have to choose between them.

That said, I think they're two very different games and the comparison isn't fair. They only thing they have in common is the worker placement mechanic, so there's room for both in any gamer's library.
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Kerstin
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I still feel the better comparison for Champions of Midgard is not Lords of Waterdeep but Stoneage and in that case (especially now with the expansion) Champions of Midgard to me is a more interesting game.

I still prefer Lords of Waterdeep over both of them but really feel they are not really that directly similar to not both have their merits.
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King Maple
Estonia
Tallinn
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One is not better than the other. They are quite different. But I actually think Lords of Waterdeep with the expansion is BETTER than Champions of Midgard (with or without expansions).

Midgard has more 'stuff' with the expansions though and is more luck heavy.
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Mike George
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Both games have their niche, I own them both but love Lords of Water deep a little more, but I will not give up Champions of Midgard.
 
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Steve Crane
United Kingdom
Sandbach
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I own both games and enjoy playing both regularly. They're significantly different enough from each other to warrant owning both in my opinion.
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jon wih
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I can definitely say that it is a more fun game compared to Lords of Waterdeep. It being 'better' kinda comes back more to personal taste, but I love Champions of Midgard alot more. I was also highly skeptical of the whole 'roll-to-score' mechanism like most of the people that are against the game, but boy was I super wrong.

Here are some reasons why I think this game is so much better:
+ It has got a sandbox feel to it. My friend also said that the game has a lot more choices. Lords of Waterdeep just seems more linear in comparison, which leads me to my next point.

+ Risk-reward / unpredictability. You can also control the risk-reward part of the game. If you're feeling lucky you can assign one dice to a battle, or lots of dice instead if you dont wanna take the risk, it is YOUR choice. I really like this variability compared to LoWD (or any euro game) where you get fixed points for fixed sources. I really do believe that people who complains of the dice screwing them, either has not played the game, or just blames the game for their bad choices because..

+ There is luck mitigation in the game. From viewing your journey cards to re-rolls, it's all there. The Valhalla expansion is perhaps the ultimate luck mitigation, where your dead warriors becomes another resource. The journey/encounter cards before battle are also not that bad, you're gonna at max lose a combination of 2 of either food or warriors. Placing extra resources on the boat really does not hurt your game much.

+ Unique character powers that LoWD lack

+ Has actual theme plus colourful art and board

Overall, people get scared because this game falls between euro and amerithrash, but that is exactly what I like. There are more risk/reward choices that can be mitigated (more so with the expansion). Great theme and art, and really just perfect for me at least. I cannot recommend you this enough. I've got some stuff I like in LoW like intrigue and buildings, but overall CoM is still the better game imo.
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Atnier Rodriguez
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Monroe
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We played Champions again over the weekend and the group still loves it. I asked them if it replaces Lords of Waterdeep and they disagreed. The consensus is that they are different enough to have both in rotation. There ya go.
 
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