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Subject: [SPOILER] Personas Unbalanced? rss

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(つ✧ω✧)つ /(◕ᆺ◕)\
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I (Yellow) am playing with my wife (Blue) and we build the buildings of our own charter at around the same pace and after opening the crates associated with them pastry shop (me) and repair shop (blue) cards, the persona (Coach) she gets allow her to retrieve all her workers immediately without having to waste a turn, while my persona (surveyor) gives only 3 VP IF I am also the first one to complete to complete a public objective. needless to say, i feel that the coach is totally more powerful than the surveyor, not to mention that her minion (robot) is also in my opinion stronger than mine (chef) from the beginning. is it just me or does this seem very unbalanced?
 
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(つ✧ω✧)つ /(◕ᆺ◕)\
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just want to add that since she unlocked having two personas for each game, the coach plus inventor (get 2VP when retrieving two robots) seems to be unstoppable.
 
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Israel Waldrom
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There are a lot of Personas in Charterstone, and they all do vary in power. Some are all round good while others are situational.

One thing to keep in mind is that used Personas are worth VP at the end of the campaign - this is an incentive to use different ones each game rather than sticking with the same one.

Minions also do different things and all have their uses. They are all good though.
Robots are a really nice minion (one of my favourites), but once she has built the Foundry(? or whatever the base Robot producing building is) you can use it as well to gain one, and then keep it from game to game. Minions in the campaign are a reasonably even playing field as once the buildings are built they are accessible to everyone.
 
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Joy Thompson
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We have had the same experience with the yellow and blue combo. It has been disappointing for the yellow player. I am playing blue and have put coach away for the rest of the game until something else comes out that is comparable.
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Rob
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Early on I thought there was a possibility this was the case. I was wrong. I've found it to be well balanced overall. I won none of the first 5 games but always felt I was a chance of coming back. Going into the final game the overall campaign victory is anybodys. I actually think I may have a very slight lead.
 
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TheBlackenedRat wrote:
Early on I thought there was a possibility this was the case. I was wrong. I've found it to be well balanced overall. I won none of the first 5 games but always felt I was a chance of coming back. Going into the final game the overall campaign victory is anybodys. I actually think I may have a very slight lead.


did u use yellow as well? i am into my 6th game and i lost all of them...
 
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Rob
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ehui wrote:
TheBlackenedRat wrote:
Early on I thought there was a possibility this was the case. I was wrong. I've found it to be well balanced overall. I won none of the first 5 games but always felt I was a chance of coming back. Going into the final game the overall campaign victory is anybodys. I actually think I may have a very slight lead.


did u use yellow as well? i am into my 6th game and i lost all of them...


Spoiler (click to reveal)
No, I was black, human opponent red one of the automa was yellow. Everything pretty much becomes usable by all players. Even personas even out as you can use any you unlock, not only from your own charter. After 5 games it was my son 2, automa2 and 1, me 0. I won the next 5. Then son won game 11. It is important I think to plan for the games still to come when you are playing, not only concentrating on the game you are currently involved in. It's one of the things I enjoyed about the game the most
 
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marc-antoine chabot
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You cannot use more than one persona during a match.
"keep it face up", not "keep them face up".
(So far. I guess rule 5 gets updated later..)
 
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Israel Waldrom
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destoo wrote:
You cannot use more than one persona during a match.
"keep it face up", not "keep them face up".
(So far. I guess rule 5 gets updated later..)


Incorrect - you can use multiple persona in a game.

At the start of the campaign you can only use one, as the setup rule has you choosing only one for the game. However there will be other ways to get out more during a game, including the glory bonus that is available from game 2 (but probably won't be unlocked for a few games).
 
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Aldaron Surinen

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I'm also playing yellow while my girlfriend plays blue. We are at game 8 and we both won 3 times (our 2 automa won once each).
I don't feel a big imbalance.
Sure the coach is good but we use different persona from game to game.
Moreover different minions are available to both of us.

We enjoy the game like that but sometimes we don't feel to much pressure to play to absolutely win. Development is great and the end of the campaign doesn't seem too close.
I hope we will enjoy the game after the campaign...
 
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Darren Nakamura
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I played one game with a literally useless persona (score VP when using a building with a coal cost + no coal cost buildings on the board). I played other games with more useful personas. The fact that each played persona is worth points at the end had me trying a new one each game, except for the one game I didn't have a new one to try.
 
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Johan Lång
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We are playing six players and Coach is totally unbalanced. The blue player can play two personas every game, already from game 5, so there is really no issue to use new ones every game. At this point there is no comparable persona, the powerlevel is insane.
 
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David Owens
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Dexter345 wrote:
I played one game with a literally useless persona (score VP when using a building with a coal cost + no coal cost buildings on the board). I played other games with more useful personas. The fact that each played persona is worth points at the end had me trying a new one each game, except for the one game I didn't have a new one to try.


You can't score a Persona without actually using it in that game.
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Nathan Clegg
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The Coach is a mixed blessing, especially at higher player counts. Your minions spend less time on the board, both lowering your potential for gains and making it harder to place them back on empty spots.
 
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Becq
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meisternomer wrote:
Dexter345 wrote:
I played one game with a literally useless persona (score VP when using a building with a coal cost + no coal cost buildings on the board). I played other games with more useful personas. The fact that each played persona is worth points at the end had me trying a new one each game, except for the one game I didn't have a new one to try.


You can't score a Persona without actually using it in that game.

What he said. You have to make use of the persona's ability at least once during the game in order to fill in the triangle at the end of the game. (We fill in the triangle at the time the ability is first used since that makes more sense to us.)
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Shlomi Ben-Naim
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How many Personas are there for each character?
 
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Israel Waldrom
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shlomi wrote:
How many Personas are there for each character?


Spoiler (click to reveal)
there is a total of 60 personas that can gained during the course of the campaign/after. 10 per colour, but remember that they don't belong to any particular charter, but to whoever unlocks them.
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Darin Bolyard
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meisternomer wrote:
You can't score a Persona without actually using it in that game.

Can anyone confirm this↑ statement? You're saying that selecting a given persona at the beginning of a game doesn't count as it being used at the end of that game? (I realize that sounds like a dumb question to some of you...)

I don't expect each persona to be completely and equally balanced. The "balance" argument exists in every game with unique-use cards. But it is evident that some are nearly impotent in comparison to others...and not just in particular circumstances. As an aside, all the discussion about how personas don't belong to one player or another, while potentially true, generally doesn't play out that way (at least it hasn't in our campaign). During game 9, I was the first player to acquire a persona that matched another player's charter (outside of inactive charter personas).

The coach (not one of mine) is an obvious candidate for persona abuse, but so is the perfumer (mine). I can't think of other top personas at he moment, but it sounds like some players just aren't maximizing some of their personas. Take this statement for example:
Dexter345 wrote:
I played one game with a literally useless persona (score VP when using a building with a coal cost + no coal cost buildings on the board). I played other games with more useful personas. The fact that each played persona is worth points at the end had me trying a new one each game, except for the one game I didn't have a new one to try.

It was a weak persona for me (gray charter) early on as well, as I only had 1 building with a coal cost in my charter. But now, going into game 10 and with my sky islands, I can now have 3 or 4 coal-cost buildings, two of which are consistently beneficial for me to use. I pulled that persona out again in game 9 and milked it for a load of points...
Spoiler (click to reveal)
...comboed with the friend card that grants +1 VP each time you gain VP [when you play] in your own charter. This persona/friend combo grants 2 VP each time you trigger it. Between those two cards and at least one cat minion, I gained a minimum of 2 VP EVERY time I played in my own charter during game 9 to finish with a score of 93.

I'd hardly call that persona worthless, especially now since I've set up my charter to capitalize on it.

On the other hand, my "Alchemist" persona is one that I have found little use for, since on our board acquiring a lot of coins is easier than acquiring a lot of resources. Still, I'm guessing someone, somewhere would say it's among their favorites...perhaps not.

...Now my "Medium" persona...that's a candidate for the worst. persona. ever. It's utter garbage in comparison to my others. I doubt it will ever be worth attempting to use, as the number of points I'd have to forgo in order to "use" it instead of ANY other persona from my chest would likely deprive me of at least 1 glory star (bad trade for the amount of points it will be worth at campaign's end).
 
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Darin Bolyard
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moramis wrote:
The Coach is a mixed blessing, especially at higher player counts. Your minions spend less time on the board, both lowering your potential for gains and making it harder to place them back on empty spots.

I'd hardly call it a mixed blessing. It's one less turn with your minions on the board, but an opportunity to re-place them that much sooner, which is more likely to produce a bonus from them anyway. Our games have seen more benefit from minions upon placement with little benefit gained by players actually playing on them once they're down. Whatever you may have gained by leaving a minion somewhere for a single turn is more than made up for in getting what is essentially a free extra turn numerous times in a game. I'd call that a straight, no-strings attached blessing. Early in our campaign, my charter was all but ignored by other players. And so I NEVER saw anyone play on one of my minions until after game 6 or 7, and even since then I can probably count on one hand how many times it has happened. Heck, even now that I've got a couple of really good buildings (one being the Perfumery), our group plays in such a way as to avoid giving other players benefits by placing on others' minions whenever possible.
 
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Nathan Clegg
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Darin, in our games it was common to place on a building immediately after the owner retrieved, meaning the owner couldn't even place his minion again. Further, unless you are running very few minions and have very useful buildings, placing all of your workers is difficult in the middle-later games anyway.
 
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Nathan Clegg
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dbolyard wrote:
meisternomer wrote:
You can't score a Persona without actually using it in that game.

Can anyone confirm this↑ statement?

Yes, see the official Charterstone FAQ at https://stonemaiergames.com/games/charterstone/faq/
Quote:
you may only mark personas as used if you actually use their ability during the game. This wording on Rule 5 (card 15) is a little ambiguous.
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Darin Bolyard
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Thanks for the confirmation. We discussed it tonight before starting game 10 and agreed on the official ruling simply based upon the printed rules. Didn't realize it was confirmed in the faq. Turns out that nobody has actually not used a selected persona, though a few of us were of the mind that it merely had to be out.

Also, we shared out our personas and discovered that each charter seems to have it's own "power persona" that's better than the rest, along with one that is generally very weak, or subpar at best. Though the yellow charter player expressed that he has yet to acquire one quite as good as either the coach or perfumer. After viewing his various personas, I feel the same. But he does have one or two more crates to unlock (one unbuilt building with a crate and one crate card).
 
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Nathan Clegg
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The order in which the crates are opened, per charter, is very relevant and has been a source of balance perspective all along, in our campaign.
 
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Stanley Laurel
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jokohanho wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
We are playing six players and Coach is totally unbalanced. The blue player can play two personas every game, already from game 5, so there is really no issue to use new ones every game. At this point there is no comparable persona, the powerlevel is insane.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
In our 6 player game, after 6 games, the blue player is the only one that has not won yet, and they've been using coach since game 4. Every other player has 1 victory, and 2 players have 2, including a game where two players tied for the victory. In the last game we played Blue came in 4th with around 55ish VP. I have won the past 2 games as black using the persona that allows you to use resources instead of coins, which so far has been an amazing ability for me. I also used the persona that allows me to either gain a VP or retrieve my other worker when I bump an opponents worker in game 6, which seems way more situational but really good when it works out. We were fighting over the quota track for the guidepost plus the quota objective and I gained 4 extra VP just by using that space and bumping people. Plus I gathered 4 income cards and traded in my 4 resources each income at the building that let's you pay 4 coins for 5 VP.

My point is, strategy and planning will get you much further in this game than any one persona. The red player in game 6 built a nice minion engine in his personal charter with various cards and his persona ability and came in 2nd with almost 80 VP. There is nothing overpowered about Coach at all, but it is a good ability, like a lot of the persona abilities.
 
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Greg S
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I am playing yellow, but I built the Repair Shop which means I have that persona. Everyone else hates me for it. whistle

It's true there are stronger and weaker personae, but there are also stronger and weaker buildings and minions, etc.
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