Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Europa Universalis» Forums » General

Subject: Buy the original or play EU9? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Giorgio Z
Germany
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Me and me playing mates are looking for a new game. I am in charge of purchase, while the others provide beer and snacks. Besides board games we do computer games too, I clocked about 630 hours in CKII and 1350 in EUIV. So, we do spend a lot of time playing.

To my shame, I must admit I only found out last week that the Europa Universalis series is based on an actual board game. None of my compatriots did either. Now the only way to redeem our shame and regain our honor is to play EU the board game.

My question now is, should we go for the original one(I found someone nearby willing to part with his copy) or the new EU8/9 version? We're not looking for easy or short(none of our games are), but for a (fairly balanced) challenge to keep us up on weekends. Which one offers more fun(hard to quantize, I know whistle) and more variety in strategy, i.e., replayability?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark O'Reilly
United Kingdom
Chester
Cheshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
No idea on which would ultimately be more fun, but here's a few things to consider:

The new version will have MANY cool minis

The new version is incredibly expensive

The new version will not be available for months yet.

The old version is available for you now, if a good price, why not buy it - try it and see if your group has enough interest to invest in the new version when it becomes available?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Giorgio Z
Germany
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
I had that thought too but after some reading here and forums elsewhere it seemed to me that there is to be no clear opinion yet which one is better or more fun - of course, that might simply be because the new version isn't done yet.

Still, I hope to find someone who has played both and could make an argument for one or the other('s current status and future outlook). Or we just might end up being that persons
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jean-Yves Moyen
Denmark
København
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What, we have minis in EU9? I'm not aware of it… meeple

I haven't play that much of the old version (EU6), but since we decided to do EU9, we obviously think it is better cool


The main drawback of EU6, gameplay-wisely, is the battle (and logistic) system. Each military counter contains a certain number of Infantry/Cavalry/Artillery and since you can buy these individually, logistic can be a hassle (trying to balance budget and military power by buying 1 less C and 2 more I…) Moreover, during battle, each I/C/A has a certain strength (actually two, why make it easy?), so you need to sum up the strength of your stack, and then the CRT deals damage that are percentage of that value (eg "deal 35% of the total strength of your stack").

That really breaks the flow of the game with a lot of tiresome computations and that was the main reason why we started writing EU9 to get rid of that (based on an idea hinted in Expansion 2). The "fast battle" system really speeds up the logistic and military phases and especially makes the military much more enjoyable as you spend more time thinking about strategy and less computing percentages…

Other drawbacks of EU6 (that we hopefully improved in EU9) include:
* Very poor rule quality. Almost each group ends up making its own house rules and clarifications. That's why EU9 rules are many times bigger, we tried to avoid ambiguous rules.
* Not so good events. You'll need to upgrade to Risto's events (that's easy enough).
* Poor simulation in Eastern Europe. The lack of Poland, Russia (early game) and Sweden (late game) as major powers makes the Eastern Europe quite strange in many games. That's why we have more players.
* Monolithic diplomatic system. We tried to improve that by splitting the Europe/ROTW parts, adding oversea wars and limited interventions.
* Not very good loan system. I think the one we ended up with is a way better simulation.
* You probably want to also find Expansion 1 (Expansion 2 was never printed, you may nonetheless want to find its rules).

* The rest of the changes are somewhat cosmetics but that can be a huge change (compare the maps and counters between both versions, I think we did a pretty good job on that point).


Drawbacks of EU9 include:
* It's print'n'play. Depending on your print shop, it can be somewhat expensive to print 2 A0 maps. And gluing+cutting ~3500 counters is a half-day game in itself…
* The rules are not entirely finished. This is getting less a problem than previously, since I finally wrote a draft of the military rules. Some of the military concepts are missing (Chapter IX). Most of it should be good enough, but the hierarchy rules might be needed (but you can use the one from EU6).
* You need 9 players instead of 6. And since the rules for Danemark aren't written yet, you start with 8 players for 14 turns. Then of course, depending on your group you may have people playing two countries…


A potential drawback of both versions, in addition to the obvious playing time (BGG's 60h is an underestimate, count ~300±50h), is that the VP system is far from being balanced. If your group is very competitive, this might be an issue. If you want to enjoy the experience, go for it. Basically, consider an EU campaign more as a RPG campaign where players enjoy the game than as a very competitive game. Sure, you can be locally competitive, wanna crush your opponent during war, have long lasting grudge after that traitor calling himself your ally, … but in the end, the VP are not balanced and the "winner" may appear somewhat random.
[this is a hotly discussed topic between veteran EU players, this is my opinion and other players will tell you that the VP are balanced]


EU6 and EU9 are still, deep down, the same game. It possible, with more or less adjustments, to pick stuff you want from both. Typically, using EU6 rules with our map and counters is quite possible. It will be a bit of additional work for you, but it might be what suits you ultimately.


EU9 has two last big advantages:
* I'm reading BGG and can provide official support from one of the designers There are probably enough people answering questions for EU6 around here, but no official designer… And since EU6 is prone to house-rules and interpretations, we do disagree on some points.
* Germany is close enough that we can arrange a teaching session for a week-end: I can come and teach you guys the game. Then you start a new game once you know the rules. That avoids reading 150 pages of rules before they start making any sense meeple


Obviously, my opinion on the EU6 vs EU9 debate is biased… I don't know if there's anybody who has tried both and prefers EU6. I know there are people who consider that EU9 is not finished enough and are angry because they want us to finish before trying it. I've played 4.5 campaigns in EU9 so I can ensure you that the rules are working… I know there's also a group in Madrid who started playing EU9. I don't know what they think about it and if they finished their campaign…


3 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Rogers
United States
APO
US Armed Forces - Europe
flag msg tools
If there's a chance for a "teaching" session in Germany at some point, I'd be interested in stopping by...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alberto Buj
Spain
Madrid
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi,
As far i know in Madrid is playing to games. In club Mecatol, we are playing 2 games. I am playing in one of them with poland. Not finished yet.
Thanks for efforts!!!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jean-Yves Moyen
Denmark
København
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
grogers64 wrote:
If there's a chance for a "teaching" session in Germany at some point, I'd be interested in stopping by...


I'm trying to set up a tutorial session in Copenhagen (Denmark). If you're tempted, answer the doodle:
https://doodle.com/poll/n9mi9yezvvmys7ci
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jean-Yves Moyen
Denmark
København
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So, I'll teach the game on 17-18 February in Copenhagen.

https://www.facebook.com/events/701077300101695/
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Edmond
France
Paris
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Jym77 wrote:
I haven't play that much of the old version (EU6), but since we decided to do EU9, we obviously think it is better


EU6 is the printed version by Azure Wish, I guess.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jean-Yves Moyen
Denmark
København
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rulx wrote:
EU6 is the printed version by Azure Wish, I guess.

Yes. Sorry. We called our version EU9 (was EU8) because it's for 9 players (was 8 when we started) (since the number of players was the first major change, "EU for 8 players" quickly became EU8) and thus we called AWE version EU6 because it's for 6 players…
And I often forget that nobody else calls it that way
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.