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Subject: Fallout: The board game I really wanted to love rss

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PK Levine
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I'm a big fan of both Fallout and FFG's board games, so much so that I was more than willing to buy the board game sight-unseen. I couldn't get my hands on a copy, but a friend did . . . and after a few plays, I've had to sadly decide that it was a blessing in disguise that I didn't grab it before trying it out. It isn't a bad game, but it was definitely a bit of a let-down for both me and some of my other friends playing it.

A Brief Description

Fallout is a tile-exploration game: the board is full of face-down tiles, and when you move to the edge of one you can flip it over and see what's there -- usually a mix of landmarks (settlements or ruins) and monsters.

Fighting monsters involves rolling some very cool and thematic dice, which show a mix of hit locations and stars; the former determines whether you damage the monster, while the latter shows how much damage you take, all in a single roll. If you have a weapon, and that weapon is tagged with a SPECIAL stat (see below) that you possess, you get rerolls equal to the applicable tags. For example, a (S)trength weapon is great if you have an "S"; if not, it's useless, as the "wastelander" player is likely to find out.

Exploring a settlement or ruin means another player draws a card from the applicable deck, reads you an encounter, and has you make a choice (and sometimes a skill test). Skill tests involve rolling all three dice and counting the stars; having an appropriate SPECIAL stat may give you rerolls. (For example, if told "Make an IL test, difficulty 3," you roll all three dice and then get one reroll if you have an I or L, two if you have both.) The result may determine if you get a reward or punishment.

Much like Firefly, you choose a "main quest" to start off the game with. It tells you what sort of options you have to start things off, like "Go here to learn more about how to take Faction A or kill this type of monster and then go here to take Faction B." When you fulfill one of the options on the story card, the game then has you draw the next step of that story (usually fixed, but sometimes there's randomness) and proceed. There are also "side quests" -- for example, when you enter a particular vault, it may have its own story card that leads to a limited run of optional additional cards.

Completing quests gives you "agenda cards," which are how you get VP. They aren't usually worth VP inherently; instead, they give you VP at the end of the game if you complete or have certain things. "+1 VP for each space by which Faction A is advanced over Faction B" or "Flat 3 VP if you have more weapons than anyone else," and so on. This is a "semi co-op" game, which means that everyone is on the same story quest and yet only one person can win.

Killing things and completing quests also gives you XP, which lets you draw two further SPECIAL tiles and choose one (you start with two, one fixed and one random). If you pick one that you already have, you instead get a perk, which is a powerful one-shot ability related to that attribute. (Yes, one-shot; perks don't stick around.)

What We Liked

The idea of the main quest cards is a good one; while the implementation feels a bit abstract, it adds some decent theme to the game. You're not just killing raiders; you've decided to hunt raiders to help the Brotherhood rather than helping the Institute. And the board game definitely tries to hew to the themes of the video game, such as your only attributes being SPECIAL and the (very appropriate) hit location dice. (Though it's weird that perks are one-shots, where in the video game they stick around permanently.)

What We Didn't

1. Semi co-op

(This one is a personal preference. You may feel otherwise.)

Before playing, I was under the impression that Fallout was a co-op game. It is not. It is a hybrid, a.k.a. a "semi co-op" game, something which I personally dislike. In my experience, hybrids make you guess at how much you're supposed to be working together vs. against each other, even though the designers have actually made some important assumptions regarding that ratio. That's definitely the case here; we eventually realized that the game is intended to be mainly competitive with other players having to work together only as necessary to avoid "everyone fails" situations.

What makes that non-intuitive is that everyone is on the same main quest! Once anyone takes the action necessary to advance the quest in one direction, it advances that way for everyone. To me, that only makes sense in a true co-op game, and it was jarring here.

2. Gear? Caps? Nahhh...

Considering how freely one finds caps and gear in the video game, it was weird how stingy the board game is. You're lucky to find 2-3 caps when searching ruins, and half of the gear you find is unusable until you've leveled up enough to unlock most of your SPECIAL stats.

On top of this, you cannot shop freely. When you explore a settlement, the Settlement card for which you choose options has to end in a "You may shop" result, or you can't! To be fair, this is usually not hard to get, but some cards don't offer it at all and other cards punish you if you ignore whatever crisis is happening. On top of that, not all shopping results are free: You may get a "Shop 1" which only lets you buy one item or sell one item, or "Shop <level>" which lets you make 1-4 transactions depending on the level of the settlement. Only "Shop All" lets you buy and sell freely, and those are rare.

Also, at any given time there are only 4 gear cards showing next to the shopping deck. When you go to shop, you draw a 5th, and then that's what you choose from. (You draw/discard back to 4 when done.) So if you really need a weapon or armor, but there are none available, you have no way to force a refresh; you have to either wait until someone else buys stuff, or buy crap you don't need and hope that, if what you need does come up, someone else doesn't take it first.

(Plus stimpacks -- something you absolutely need after a tough fight -- are one of the most expensive single-use items in the game, a complete turnaround from the video game where they flow like water.)

3. Anti-climactic endings

Some of the quests, especially the side quests, are just a flat-out disappointment. There were times when a multi-card quest seemed to be building to something very cool and interesting -- enough so that one or more players were spending several turns on it, using perks and valuable gear to pass its tests -- and then the resolution happened and it was just "draw two cards." Not only did they feel stupid for having wasted more resources than they received, but the whole table was just let down emotionally.

(I'd say more, but spoilers.)

4. Lack of balance + bad luck = screwed from the start

You start off as one of five different types of characters, and they are not balanced against each other. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of asymmetric games, but not those in which there are clearly "good" and "bad" racial choices. For example, the ghoul heals in radiation zones, which means he never gets irradiated (something that reduces your max HP and is surprisingly hard to get rid of!) and doesn't need to hoard stimpacks or waste turns resting to heal. In contrast, the Brotherhood outcast starts with good armor but gets half movement, which is pretty crippling in this game; he can avoid this for 1 cap per turn, but that is very expensive in this game. (And ironically, the vault dweller starts with armor that, while weaker at first, is actually far better in the long run, with no drawbacks.)

But the worst is the poor wastelander. My friend got stuck with him the first game, and after that no one would choose him, because . . . well, let me take you there:

Wastelander-Playing Friend (W): "Okay, so she heals in radiation, he gets free XP in radiation, and you have that great vault suit. What do I get?"

Rulebook-Reading Friend (R): "Flip your card over. You start with a tire iron, a basic 'Strength' weapon. As long as you have the S in SPECIAL, you can attack with it."

W: "Okay, so I start with an S?"

R: "Nope, the wastelander starts with an A. But then you get to draw a second letter randomly, so maybe?"

W: "Okay . . . I drew an L. Odd, I don't feel lucky. Okay, I'll attack a bunch of monsters so I can level up. Man, this is hard with just my fists. --

[EDIT: Turns out that we slightly misunderstood the tire iron, due to the rules on weapons being unclear. It's not that the wastelander can't use it at all without an S, it's that the weapon is only half as useful without an S. It's still really disheartening to start off with an S weapon and no S attribute though, especially when you know that whether you do is 100% up to chance.]

-- Ouch, I almost just died, but after many fights I can finally level up! Give me the SPECIAL bag . . . and I got an I. Y'know what? I'm just going to sell this stupid thing for caps. I enter a settlement."

R: <draws the settlement card and has him resolve it> "Sorry, that outcome doesn't let you shop."

W: "Okay, I'll try again."

R: <ditto> "You can Shop 1."

W: "Great, I sell this thing for 5 caps. That's actually not a bad price, but I wish the game had just started me with those caps. Now I want to buy that pistol."

R: "Nope, you have to wait."

Other Player: "I enter the settlement." <completes card> "And I buy that pistol."

W: "Seriously? Okay, now there are no weapons showing. I guess I'll explore again and hope that I draw one." <completes card> "No, that's a stimpack. I guess I'll just buy that and head back out to face foes with my fists."

Mind you, at this point those of us who didn't have to deal with this B.S. had already advanced across most of the board, completed some side quests, and leveled up a lot.

Having Said All That . . .

I definitely realize that this was a negatively slanted review, but there's a reason for that. Right now this game is scarce, which means (A) a lot of people haven't had a chance to play it, yet (B) it's going for high prices in the secondary markets. So I wanted to lay out everything that I saw as an issue with it, for you to read before paying double MSRP on eBay.

If what I said above isn't a deal-breaker for you, then by all means go for it. There's a lot that this game gets right -- its components are top-notch and really nail the theme, and most of its story cards are fun and exciting. Personally, I'd suggest waiting to see if the first expansion (or maybe a good set of house rules) addresses its issues; I feel like Fallout has a lot of potential, but that they haven't quite worked out the kinks yet.
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Christopher Scatliff
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I'm confused by your anecdote about the tire iron. The claim that it's a useless card unless you have S is completely false. If you have S, that grants you an additional re-roll, but the tire iron has an inherent text ability that grants you a re-roll even without an S, it just has to be reset after use with a camp action. That makes it a great starting weapon, and the Wastelander is the only survivor which gets to start with a weapon. So it seems to me that at least part of your negative impression is based on a misunderstanding of a game rule.
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Jo Bartok
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Quote:
Before playing, I was under the impression that Fallout was a co-op game. It is not. It is a hybrid, a.k.a. a "semi co-op" game, something which I personally dislike. In my experience, hybrids make you guess at how much you're supposed to be working together vs. against each other, even though the designers have actually made some important assumptions regarding that ratio. That's definitely the case here; we eventually realized that the game is intended to be mainly competitive with other players having to work together only as necessary to avoid "everyone fails" situations.



So you say it is no multiplayer-solitaire game? Maybe I am interested then.
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I played two games so far and would just like to comment on the downsides:

1. Agreed. The first game (4 players) felt more like four separate single player games. We listened to each other's story lines and were well entertained, but there was nothing co-op about it. Only co-op part is that attacking each other isn't possible.

2. Agreed.

3. I didn't get that feeling when following the multi-card quests. Most of them were fun and very narrative. Which is the strength of this game: The narrative aspect. So if one can play it for this and leave the competitive part aside (don't focus on who 'wins' or not, but take the whole Influence-thing as a way to end the game) then there is no problem.

4. As mentioned above, you didn't play the tire iron correctly. Your friend had a perfectly usable weapon - and even with a built-in reroll when exhausting it. The 'S' would just have granted an extra reroll that would have been usable even when the tire iron was exhausted. (So the weapon had potentially 2 rerolls).


Great review though. Nails a few points in the existing rules.
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Nathan McCullough
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Thanks for the write-up on it, sounds like Runebound, just Fallout theme. Which is a win for me since I wasn't a huge fan of Runebound's setting, but liked the idea.


 
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PK Levine
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Smoo wrote:
I'm confused by your anecdote about the tire iron. The claim that it's a useless card unless you have S is completely false. If you have S, that grants you an additional re-roll, but the tire iron has an inherent text ability that grants you a re-roll even without an S, it just has to be reset after use with a camp action. That makes it a great starting weapon, and the Wastelander is the only survivor which gets to start with a weapon. So it seems to me that at least part of your negative impression is based on a misunderstanding of a game rule.


I guess we were misunderstanding it then. But for the record, a total of five different people in our group looked at that weapon and read the rules about how weapons work and came to the conclusion that you don't get anything unless you have "S" -- so I guess change this complaint from "this weapon is useless" to "the weapon rules are confusing."

(I've edited the review to clarify this point, and to emphasize that it's still a bummer to be given a weapon that requires a certain stat to use to its full potential -- and then to not start with that stat. That would be like the Brotherhood outcast requiring an "L" for his armor to be full strength, with it only providing Armor 1 otherwise.)
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Christopher Scatliff
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pkitty wrote:
I guess we were misunderstanding it then. But for the record, a total of five different people in our group looked at that weapon and read the rules about how weapons work and came to the conclusion that you don't get anything unless you have "S" -- so I guess change this complaint from "this weapon is useless" to "the weapon rules are confusing."


That's fair. I can even see how a reading of that rule section could lead you to your interpretation.

One rule of thumb I try to go by when understanding rules, though, is that if I come across a rule which seems to make absolutely no sense at all, the truth is very rarely "this rule makes absolutely no sense at all" and is almost always "I must be misunderstanding something". Which then leads me to try to make actual sense out of it rather than dismissing it.
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ionas wrote:
Quote:
Before playing, I was under the impression that Fallout was a co-op game. It is not. It is a hybrid, a.k.a. a "semi co-op" game, something which I personally dislike. In my experience, hybrids make you guess at how much you're supposed to be working together vs. against each other, even though the designers have actually made some important assumptions regarding that ratio. That's definitely the case here; we eventually realized that the game is intended to be mainly competitive with other players having to work together only as necessary to avoid "everyone fails" situations.



So you say it is no multiplayer-solitaire game? Maybe I am interested then.

Actually it sounds like a novel new version of multiplayer solitaire:

Quote:
What makes that non-intuitive is that everyone is on the same main quest! Once anyone takes the action necessary to advance the quest in one direction, it advances that way for everyone. To me, that only makes sense in a true co-op game, and it was jarring here.
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PK Levine
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ionas wrote:
So you say it is no multiplayer-solitaire game? Maybe I am interested then.

I'm confused -- my review didn't say anything about "multiplayer-solitaire" one way or the other. Most games, whether competitive or co-op, are not multiplayer solitaire, so if that's your yardstick for a game being good, you're pretty much spoiled for choice already.


FS1976 wrote:
3. I didn't get that feeling when following the multi-card quests. Most of them were fun and very narrative.

Two words: Vault 84.

Actually, is that one word and a number? Or three words? How about "One phrase:" instead; that works.


Smoo wrote:
One rule of thumb I try to go by when understanding rules, though, is that if I come across a rule which seems to make absolutely no sense at all, the truth is very rarely "this rule makes absolutely no sense at all" and is almost always "I must be misunderstanding something". Which then leads me to try to make actual sense out of it rather than dismissing it.

I agree. But since that wasn't the case here, it doesn't apply. It wasn't that we thought the rules didn't make sense, we just thought they were poorly conceived. And since that's the case for many of the other rules with this game (see "shopping"), it didn't surprise us.
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pkitty wrote:
I agree. But since that wasn't the case here, it doesn't apply.


You thought that a character's starting item had no effect whatsoever barring a lucky tile draw, while the other characters had useful ones. I have trouble believing that you thought that made sense.
 
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Aaron Day
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The shopping system had us confused at first but I've come to realize how it was designed. When you draw a settlement card, you are presented with an encounter and you can either do that encounter OR you can go shopping. There's only a small number of cards that don't have a clear "go shopping" option. I originally assumed that the encounter was part of the shopping mechanic when it's actually something to instead of shopping.

If the game had been Shop OR draw a settlement encounter, there'd be fewer complaints although the effect is similar.


As to the Shop 1, that's a specific result in addition to doing the encounter, so it's similar to a bonus shop.

While shopping is limited to settlement size, the game has only one Size 1 settlement, and one size 2. All other settlements (other the two used in Far Harbor only) are size 3 or 4 which is enough shop actions to sell all your inventory.
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Thanks for your review! I was going to buy this but after this and other reviews, it’s a pass for me. Too bad as I love Runebound but prefer this theme.
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Smoo wrote:
pkitty wrote:
I agree. But since that wasn't the case here, it doesn't apply.


You thought that a character's starting item had no effect whatsoever barring a lucky tile draw, while the other characters had useful ones. I have trouble believing that you thought that made sense.


Regardless of what you believe, I hope you can agree that it is the publisher's responsibility to make clear rules? Not exactly FFG expertise, they don't need to, when business model is built on patching stuff anyway...

Asger
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pkitty wrote:
On top of this, you cannot shop freely. When you explore a settlement, the Settlement card for which you choose options has to end in a "You may shop" result, or you can't!


I actually loved this - every time you visited a settlement you weren't sure what would happen.

pkitty wrote:

What makes that non-intuitive is that everyone is on the same main quest! Once anyone takes the action necessary to advance the quest in one direction, it advances that way for everyone. To me, that only makes sense in a true co-op game, and it was jarring here.


And again, I loved this. You work towards whatever outcome you want, but there are other agents with their own agendas. We've had plenty of fun games where someone thought they knew what was happening only to have someone with a hidden allegiance swoop in and derail their plans.

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pkitty wrote:


FS1976 wrote:
3. I didn't get that feeling when following the multi-card quests. Most of them were fun and very narrative.

Two words: Vault 84.


We played out second game last night and had a very different experience to our first.

Our first was fantastic we managed to work our way through one branch of the story in the commonwealth before the game ended, leaving us feeling like we experienced something epic.

The second game one of the players focused on the Vault 84 and saw it all the way through and in doing so won the game due to his reward. It was a big let down, we all felt the story was just starting to get going then the game ended.

So far I am really loving the story aspect and trying to work out a path I want to take. The one thing in my mind that lets this game down is the agenda deck and how it feels when it ends the game in such and artificial way.
 
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Tel Prydain wrote:
pkitty wrote:
On top of this, you cannot shop freely. When you explore a settlement, the Settlement card for which you choose options has to end in a "You may shop" result, or you can't!


I actually loved this - every time you visited a settlement you weren't sure what would happen.

pkitty wrote:

What makes that non-intuitive is that everyone is on the same main quest! Once anyone takes the action necessary to advance the quest in one direction, it advances that way for everyone. To me, that only makes sense in a true co-op game, and it was jarring here.


And again, I loved this. You work towards whatever outcome you want, but there are other agents with their own agendas. We've had plenty of fun games where someone thought they knew what was happening only to have someone with a hidden allegiance swoop in and derail their plans.


Great. As I said, if you like the game and the things I mention aren't a dealbreaker, go ahead and buy it. My review is to make sure people know that these issues exist so they can make an informed decision. Basically, I came very close to buying this game without being aware of them, and I would have been very upset; a review like this could have warned me away from it.
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Brett Leeson
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I agree with a lot of your points here, in no random order.

My friend was playing the Wastelander, with the tire iron - which she wound up selling partway through the game, because she leveled up a few times and never managed to draw the S she needed to take advantage of the S reroll.

On the other hand, I drew a plasma blaster as a reward at some point - a gun with I think IAP; I had I and A and then my very next level up got a P, so I was running around with a gun that gave 3 rerolls every time I used it, and had range.

And she actually wound up winning - while I was faring much better in any given scrap I got into, she wound up drawing 2 of the agenda cards of the leading faction, while I had one for the *other* faction and couldn't advance them to save my life.

Our biggest complaint was that the game was extremely random in all the wrong ways. You might get a good weapon but never manage to get the SPECIAL tokens you needed to take best advantage of it. You might need something from the shop but keep drawing cards without a Shop option - or need to sell excess items for caps but be stuck doing so 1 at a time with unlucky 'Shop 1' draws.

The ending of the game was another perfect example of this. My friend had 3 agenda cards in hand, worth I think a total of 5 points; one of them was a faction card corresponding that game to the Institute, the other 2 were for the Railroad, and the Railroad was a couple of spaces ahead on the track.

There was a thing happening that, if we didn't stop it, would cause the Institute to advance 4 spaces on the track, ending the game with the lead they already had. We were all trying to stop it, but doing so cost a quest action in a settlement location and 8 caps in order to slow it down for a bit. She completed a random quest, drew a random agenda card, and it turned out to be a second Institute one.

She checked the rules and figured out this:
If a faction’s token ever reaches the final space of the track, that
faction has gained enough power to take over the wasteland, and
the game ends! If that token advancing granted any survivors
enough influence to win the game, they can declare victory and
end the game first.

She quickly figured out that just letting the thing get to its destination would shoot her from 8 points to I think 14 - more than enough to win at any player count, so she just let me run out of caps, quit trying to stop it, and once it got where it was going and ended the game she just flipped over her agenda cards and declared victory.

I don't think it was an especially satisfying win for her, either, though. We never got to see the main quest line through, unless THAT was the anticlimactic end of it. She just drew the agenda cards that lined up with the faction that took a lead and then was going to abruptly end the game, and I didn't. Felt very random and sucked a lot of the drama out, especially since there was no way for me to stop the game from ending once I'd burned through my caps.
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pkitty wrote:
Smoo wrote:
I'm confused by your anecdote about the tire iron. The claim that it's a useless card unless you have S is completely false. If you have S, that grants you an additional re-roll, but the tire iron has an inherent text ability that grants you a re-roll even without an S, it just has to be reset after use with a camp action. That makes it a great starting weapon, and the Wastelander is the only survivor which gets to start with a weapon. So it seems to me that at least part of your negative impression is based on a misunderstanding of a game rule.


I guess we were misunderstanding it then. But for the record, a total of five different people in our group looked at that weapon and read the rules about how weapons work and came to the conclusion that you don't get anything unless you have "S" -- so I guess change this complaint from "this weapon is useless" to "the weapon rules are confusing."


No, you got that part right, but the game text on the card itself lets you exhaust it for a re-roll. That is independent of the re-rolls on matcing letters.
 
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CrookedWook wrote:
once it got where it was going and ended the game she just flipped over her agenda cards and declared victory.

I don't think it was an especially satisfying win for her, either, though. We never got to see the main quest line through, unless THAT was the anticlimactic end of it.

Our experiences were similar to yours. This game almost feels like, "Play through d6+8 rounds, then draw from a deck of cards; whoever gets the high card wins."
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