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Subject: Eagle Eye Goggles - The best thing ever? rss

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John Stormslayer
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I played a game with Cragheart (lvl2) yesterday. Due to my relatives coercing me, I purchased Eagle Eye Goggles, and I have no regrets.

I was able to use them four times in the scenario and target 10 enemies with all of Cragheart's AOE abilities. There was never a time where the advantage failed to add at least 1 damage, so I would wager I gained 15 damage over the scenario.

Fifteen damage is the equivalent of 2-3 enemies at scenario level 1, with no extra turns needed. Is that not the best use of 30 gold?

I'd also be interested if anyone knows how to calculate probability of having advantage. What's the average value it increases your attack by?
 
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Aaron Rohrer
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we love the goggles and use them all the time in our campaign! anyone with good AOE effects should take them.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Eagle Eye Goggles are good, but I'm more inclined to give them to characters that do high single-target damage. With an area-of-effect, if you miss one 2-3 attack out of four due to the null, it doesn't hurt so bad. With something like the Scoundrel set up to do 9 damage in one hit, her drawing the null is devastating.
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Delith Malistar
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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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I'm loathe to buy them do to the recent posts about rolling modifier cards. Anyone veterans out there want to chime in? Are they still worth the cost even with RMs happening later in the character's 'life'?
 
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Karl Roe
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I've found the Goggles are great for lower level characters, and then become somewhat less of an advantage as your character levels up and has fewer minus cards and more rolling modifiers.
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Nathan Stiles
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CNCJohnWE wrote:
... There was never a time where the advantage failed to add at least 1 damage, so I would wager I gained 15 damage over the scenario.

Fifteen damage is the equivalent of 2-3 enemies at scenario level 1, with no extra turns needed.


The last part isn't true...

Math, you hit a health 6 creature for 3 damage instead of 2. They are still alive, so... the +1 bonus damage only helps in situations where your teammate fails to do 4 points of damage on the attack that finishes off that monster. Overkill doesn't gain anything, it's the number of attacks needed to drop a mob that matters.

Eagle Eye goggles are great, but they maximize on characters that have multi-attack actions and modified attack decks that have more +2 or blessings.

I had them on my SW, but I'm not using them on my MT.

Dexter345 wrote:
Eagle Eye Goggles are good, but I'm more inclined to give them to characters that do high single-target damage. <snip> With something like the Scoundrel set up to do 9 damage in one hit, her drawing the null is devastating.


Our SC player was paranoid and did the same thing-- if there's no better head items unlocked, then it makes sense. However, I'd give it to a SW over a SC any day of the week. The SC often will finish something off on any EXCEPT a null card. So, you are using an item to negate a very small chance of failure-- as opposed to an SW that adds more +2 cards, add element cards, and needs both of them and can use Advantage on target 2, target 3, or AoE attack abilities.
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Matt Rossi
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I find them particularly useful on the Spellweaver. The perks that add +2 Fire and +2 Ice are very helpful to hit often and using the goggles on AoE attacks lets me get through my deck faster to hit them more often. There are times where the extra damage isn't useful this turn, but always having Ice and/or Fire up is helpful if your party can make use of those elements often.

Everyone else is pretty spot on. Advantage is less good with lots of rolling modifiers in your deck and the benefit of them is greatest when your deck has a high number of cards you want to avoid hitting (Such as with an unmodified deck), or a high number of cards that are unambiguously better than other positive cards, in the case of the SW +2 Fire/+2 Ice).
 
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Jeroen
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Goggles are great and nobody will argue if you consider them the best item in the game.
Some characters might not use them that often though. Characters that don't have any other items that refresh and only take Short Rests, for example.
Or a smart* Spellweaver that has
Spoiler (click to reveal)
enhanced Mana Bolt with Strengthen


*or one that has read way too many GH guides whistle
 
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John Stormslayer
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WarioMCP wrote:
Advantage is less good with lots of rolling modifiers in your deck and the benefit of them is greatest when your deck has a high number of cards you want to avoid hitting (Such as with an unmodified deck), or a high number of cards that are unambiguously better than other positive cards, in the case of the SW +2 Fire/+2 Ice).


I read about Advantage and rolling modifiers. Luckily, I just started playing this game, and I have 2 perks, neither of which are rolling modifiers. I can avoid getting rolling modifiers and prioritize the +2s easily enough.

And yes, I just started playing, and there's not a better helmet unlocked yet. I'll have no problem switching to something better in later levels because my attack modifier deck will be significantly better. I don't know how the gold scaling will work in this game, but when I see enhancing a card costing at least 30-150 gold, spending 30 on this makes a huge difference early.
 
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Nathan Stiles
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Major Stamina potion-- best thing ever
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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SaintHax wrote:
Major Stamina potion-- best thing ever

you probably not have seen any prosperity 8+ items ;o
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Nathan Stiles
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Morthai wrote:
SaintHax wrote:
Major Stamina potion-- best thing ever

you probably not have seen any prosperity 8+ items ;o


No, but then I'd assume the same goes for Eagle Eye googles :-) Stam potion is great on every character, no matter what modifier deck or abilities they have.
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CPL Rod
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Must I tap the Eagle Eye Googles before my I flip the first attack modifier card? Or can I see the first of ostensibly two attack modifier cards and then decide if I want to use the Eagle Eye Googles?
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Yes, you have to decide to use the Eagle-Eye Goggles before you draw an attack modifier card.

Note that if you have a multi-target attack, you can perform the first attack, and then decide to spend the Eagle-Eye Goggles for the rest of the attacks in the attack action. But for each individual attack, once you draw attack modifiers, there's no going back to use a lot of items that affect the attack.
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Jay Johnson
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Dexter345 wrote:
But for each individual attack, once you draw attack modifiers, there's no going back to use a lot of items that affect the attack.
In fact, once an AttMod card is drawn for an attack, you can't use any items that directly affect that attack (whether that be adding/subtracting damage, adding advantage/disadvantage, adding status effects, or anything else).
Note that this doesn't apply to shields and the like that don't affect the attack itself, but deal with reducing the damage from that attack.
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What's the problem with rolling cards?
 
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Jay Johnson
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SanguinousRex wrote:
What's the problem with rolling cards?
they potentially decrease the efficiency of Advantage.
An advantage attack that pulls a rolling modifier just uses both of the cards, so some people feel that EEGs aren't worth it for characters whose AttMod decks have lots of rolling mods.
 
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Kip Kwiatkowski
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JayJ79 wrote:
SanguinousRex wrote:
What's the problem with rolling cards?
they potentially decrease the efficiency of Advantage.
An advantage attack that pulls a rolling modifier just uses both of the cards, so some people feel that EEGs aren't worth it for characters whose AttMod decks have lots of rolling mods.


Just to clarify so the RAW isn't misrepresented:
- Advantage still produces a net gain with rolling modifiers when viewed from a statistical average.
- Individual draws could result in a Null or a minus damage.
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Des T.
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kgk4569 wrote:

- Individual draws could result in a Null or a minus damage.


...but will still get better results than without advantage or without a RM. It's just advantage AND RMs that can sometimes be funky.
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Kip Kwiatkowski
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DeS_Tructive wrote:
kgk4569 wrote:

- Individual draws could result in a Null or a minus damage.


...but will still get better results than without advantage or without a RM. It's just advantage AND RMs that can sometimes be funky.


Exactly.

A lot of people misinterpret Advantage, supposing it means always hitting, or always doing more damage. Thus they think this interaction with Nulls is inappropriate.

In reality it is that you have a BETTER CHANCE of hitting. Thematically it is like your opponent is distracted or off balance, or you have momentarily enhanced reflexes. You can still miss or score a glancing hit, but it is less likely.
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Coyote81 aka Token
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Agreed, my mindtheif build was able to use the major stamina twice per scenario, and I also had a minor stam and scroll of stam. I don't remember ever exhausting and I could lock down some enemies for some 6 turns if needed.
 
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Jay Johnson
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kgk4569 wrote:
- Advantage still produces a net gain with rolling modifiers when viewed from a statistical average.

but not as much of a statistical net gain as Advantage without Rolling Modifiers would produce.
 
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Kip Kwiatkowski
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JayJ79 wrote:
kgk4569 wrote:
- Advantage still produces a net gain with rolling modifiers when viewed from a statistical average.

but not as much of a statistical net gain as Advantage without Rolling Modifiers would produce.


That misrepresents both Advantage and Rolling Modifiers. Callidus did a simulation using the MT's modifiers (MT has a lot of RMs).

-- Modified average attack values --
BASE - No Perks - 2.0
All perks Except RM - 2.8
All perks WITH RMs - 3.07
All perks, No RMs, + Adv. - 3.57
All perks, With RMs, + Adv - 3.35

Sure, you can interpret that as "RMs and Adv, make it worse than Adv without it!" But that is a flawed way to look at it. Most of your atracks are going to be without Advantage. Therefore the 3.07 average attack is realistically much better than the 2.8. Then with Advantage you still see an increase in damage.

Additionally there is crit/miss probability.
BASE - No Perks - 0.07/0.07
All perks Except RM - 0.1/0.1
All perks WITH RMs - 0.1/0.1
All perks, No RMs, + Adv. - 0.19/0.0
All perks, With RMs, + Adv - 0.13/0.07

Again, we see the same thing, No RMs and No Adv seems to win the day. Again though, normally you won't be using Adv so that means normally RMs and no RMs are equal. However, again you'd be using the Adv from things like EEG in special occasions, usually with AoE attacks. Here the 3% probability for crit is helpful while the chance to miss is the same as that in the base deck.
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Des T.
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I know I'm at least partially responsible for triggering this one, but please no... not again!
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Kip Kwiatkowski
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Yeah. This and X are the two most hotly contested topics in the game.
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