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Subject: Does the expansion improve balance? rss

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Jacob Fulwiler
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I know the balance issue has been talked about to death in the main game forum, but I just wanted to see if the expansion improved it at all. My main concern is the playability of the Machines. I generally play a 3 player game and I don't think I've ever seen the Machines win, even when experienced players use them. I'm hoping the expansion gives them new tools to be more competitive without turning the game into a simple 2 on 1 vs the humans.
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James Mathias
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Bataar wrote:
I know the balance issue has been talked about to death in the main game forum, but I just wanted to see if the expansion improved it at all. My main concern is the playability of the Machines. I generally play a 3 player game and I don't think I've ever seen the Machines win, even when experienced players use them. I'm hoping the expansion gives them new tools to be more competitive without turning the game into a simple 2 on 1 vs the humans.


The expansion does offer new choices for the Machines.

I personally haven't experienced any balance issues with the Machines as a faction. I have seen both experienced and new players trounce with them. They are extremely strong, once you understand how they want to play.

That said, if you are expecting the expansion to solve a perceived balance issue, it likely will not.
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Dylan Bradshaw
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For every thread about the machines being out of balance there is a matching one for the humans and the trogs and the pilgrims. Get better at the game.and stop blaming your inexperience on piss poor play!!
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Scott DeMers
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dylanbradshaw wrote:
For every thread about the machines being out of balance there is a matching one for the humans and the trogs and the pilgrims. Get better at the game.and stop blaming your inexperience on piss poor play!!


...and a troll appears. I agree with the OP and don't appreciate the trolling. Let people ask their questions. If you don't have an actual response to the question, don't reply.
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luke smith
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I never have and never will see a game where the machines have won, without the other players either 1) being new and not knowing what to do or 2) playing sub optimally.

I would like to see a write up or video of it done. Because there is always one or two in every thread saying "I trounce with the machines", but that's all they ever say.

They cannot win. Not with people who know how to play the other races.
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James Mathias
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lukasaurus wrote:
I never have and never will see a game where the machines have won, without the other players either 1) being new and not knowing what to do or 2) playing sub optimally.

I would like to see a write up or video of it done. Because there is always one or two in every thread saying "I trounce with the machines", but that's all they ever say.

They cannot win. Not with people who know how to play the other races.


Haha. Ok, cool!
 
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Justin Woods
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Odd I have had the machines win the last two games I've played. First by the most-experienced player, then by somebody who's only played once before (who was new to machines having played Pilgrims his first game). YMMV I guess.
 
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Jon Snow
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goo In general, while I have no balance issue, I'd say the expansion will "improve the balance"--mostly for either the Pilgrims or Machines, the two factions that people find a longer learning curve for--because giving so many new options to all of the factions will tend to relieve situations where the winning play is obvious!
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Alex Banks
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lukasaurus wrote:
I never have and never will see a game where the machines have won, without the other players either 1) being new and not knowing what to do or 2) playing sub optimally.

I would like to see a write up or video of it done. Because there is always one or two in every thread saying "I trounce with the machines", but that's all they ever say.

They cannot win. Not with people who know how to play the other races.


Is this with the shortening turns rule?
If you play to the full 5 rounds then machines have a decent chance in the base game.

Have you played with the expansion? Do you have an answer to the OPs question?
 
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Brian K
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Hell yes 100 times over. I am a huge fan of the bass game and have long hated the imbalance of the machines. Our first game with expansion the machines handed the humans their asses!!!!! Cry Havoc baby!
 
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James Mathias
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2Hammer wrote:
Hell yes 100 times over. I am a huge fan of the bass game and have long hated the imbalance of the machines. Our first game with expansion the machines handed the humans their asses!!!!! Cry Havoc baby!


How are the machines imbalanced?
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Justin Woods
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They aren't.
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Brian K
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I was replying to the original poster, who clearly has a similar opinion to mine. James, in another post on this same topic, you trolled me and others, saying we just sucked too much to play machines well. You would be better served to just stay away from these posts, because clearly your skill is far beyond any of us that think there is a balance problem.
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James Mathias
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2Hammer wrote:
I was replying to the original poster, who clearly has a similar opinion to mine. James, in another post on this same topic, you trolled me and others, saying we just sucked too much to play machines well. You would be better served to just stay away from these posts, because clearly your skill is far beyond any of us that think there is a balance problem.


I never said or did any such thing. If you are going to make accusations, at least directly link to the post where I said you sucked too much to play machines well. Because that never happened.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/26890140#26890140

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Brian K
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You certainly win the sentence fragment and trolling the topic contest.
 
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James Mathias
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2Hammer wrote:
You certainly win the sentence fragment and trolling the topic contest.


You outright lied, then instead of apologizing you insult me further? Sounds good. Have a great Christmas and New Year, you deserve it!
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Brian K
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I had a great Christmas playing the recently balanced Cry Havoc expansion. I also took inventory of my available apologies for trolls and sure enough, the 2017 stock is out.
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Scott DeMers
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2Hammer wrote:
I was replying to the original poster, who clearly has a similar opinion to mine. James, in another post on this same topic, you trolled me and others, saying we just sucked too much to play machines well. You would be better served to just stay away from these posts, because clearly your skill is far beyond any of us that think there is a balance problem.


^^^^^ This
 
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James Mathias
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sdmers wrote:
2Hammer wrote:
I was replying to the original poster, who clearly has a similar opinion to mine. James, in another post on this same topic, you trolled me and others, saying we just sucked too much to play machines well. You would be better served to just stay away from these posts, because clearly your skill is far beyond any of us that think there is a balance problem.


^^^^^ This


This what?

Are you also claiming that I said what he claims (which he still hasn't provided proof of), or are you saying that when someone's opinion varies from your own they are a troll, and shouldn't participate on public forum?

The game isn't imbalanced. The game has a very steep learning curve.

I have no interest in trolling anyone on these forums. But I certainly will stand up and defend Cry Havoc, its designers and publisher when others make blanket (false) claims about its balance without any sort of explanation as to why it may be imbalanced.
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Robski Horus
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jmathias wrote:
sdmers wrote:
2Hammer wrote:
I was replying to the original poster, who clearly has a similar opinion to mine. James, in another post on this same topic, you trolled me and others, saying we just sucked too much to play machines well. You would be better served to just stay away from these posts, because clearly your skill is far beyond any of us that think there is a balance problem.


^^^^^ This


This what?

Are you also claiming that I said what he claims (which he still hasn't provided proof of), or are you saying that when someone's opinion varies from your own they are a troll, and shouldn't participate on public forum?

The game isn't imbalanced. The game has a very steep learning curve.

I have no interest in trolling anyone on these forums. But I certainly will stand up and defend Cry Havoc, its designers and publisher when others make blanket (false) claims about its balance without any sort of explanation as to why it may be imbalanced.


Awesome game for good players.

The expansion adds to the options and makes it more awesome for more players.
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Justin Buckler
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FYI, I always play machines, and I've only lost maybe two games out of 20. New and experienced players alike. Not imbalanced IMO.
 
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Scott DeMers
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Murdok187 wrote:
FYI, I always play machines, and I've only lost maybe two games out of 20. New and experienced players alike. Not imbalanced IMO.


You do realize that winning 18 out of 20 with one faction would imply imbalance.

That said, I have never seen machines win. Ever. They are my favorite faction to play. So fun. But, I go in knowing what I know about the struggles in scoring points.

I think the conversation about imbalance is really about the flow of the game. The game is not out of balance, but two of the factions need for things to go a certain way or they lose. Two of the factions can be more flexible. That is unfortunate as I really like the game and the mechanics are truly lovely. But the most exciting game designs are the ones that have an ebb and flow of success and failure to them.

So, when a poster asks a question, it is not valuable to say "No, they are not imbalanced". It helps to say WHY you think that and WHAT you do that is different so others can try it. So, let's hear it.

All simply my opinion, mind you.
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