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Aventuria: Adventure Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Fate-Critical-reroll question rss

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Ricardo Pinheiro
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Hi,

Tried the game yesterday, but I was kinda confused with gaining and using fate, critical and reroll, so to break it down I made this diagram on the go:

Is this correct? I used critical as max and min. For what I understand, if is a critical, you have to gain or discard a card and then you decide if you reroll or not.


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Tomas
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Archidelic wrote:
Hi,

Is this correct? I used critical as max and min. For what I understand, if is a critical, you have to gain or discard a card and then you decide if you reroll or not.


Don't think so, in case of critical failure. If you reroll your 20 into something else, you shouldn't have to discard.

rulebook p8 wrote:

Critical Failure:

If you use a game effect that allows you to make an
immediate reroll (for example by using a fate point,
see below) and this reroll doesn’t also result in a 20,
then you don’t have to discard a card.
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Dimitri
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Feel free to check my compendium in the file section of the Aventuria game lister page.

Link: Compendium

With this document Matthias Adler and I tried to summerise the fate point mechanic.


Enjoy playing Aventuria!
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Ricardo Pinheiro
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Thank you both, but I have been reading the rules back and forth and also the compendium ( which I add a summary of the game steps for my personal use). It's simple and I don't know why I got so confused.
I think I understand now, but:
"and this reroll doesn’t also result in a 20,then you don’t have to discard a card"

Shouldn't this be:
"And this reroll also result in a 20,then you don’t have to discard a card"?

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Dimitri
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The discard effect only triggers on a critical failure. So if the final result is 20, then the effect takes place. Forcing to discard a card.

I'm curious to see your reworked version of the compendium BTW.
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Ricardo Pinheiro
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magic_erwt wrote:
The discard effect only triggers on a critical failure. So if the final result is 20, then the effect takes place. Forcing to discard a card.

I'm curious to see your reworked version of the compendium BTW.


Ah ok, if the first roll was a 20 and I use a fate to reroll, I wouldn't have to discard a card for the first roll, but if the reroll is a 20, then I have to discard. But if the reroll is a 1, could I draw a card too? When reading the rules, it seems that I can't.

Also, if a opponent rolls a 1 and then have another turn and it rolls a 1 again, does he have another turn? I think yes,because it isn't a reroll, it is another different turn.

Oh, I have done copy paste from the pdf of the rules you posted is pretty rough but I can send it to you later
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Dimitri
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Archidelic wrote:
if the first roll was a 20 and I use a fate to reroll, I wouldn't have to discard a card for the first roll, but if the reroll is a 20, then I have to discard.


Correct. The first die result is cancelled. You reroll and it's again 20 - then you eat up the die - and apply the failure event. Unless you can/want to spend another mb.


Archidelic wrote:
But if the reroll is a 1, could I draw a card too? When reading the rules, it seems that I can't.


Good catch. This is correct. I go add it to the Compendium.


Archidelic wrote:
Also, if a opponent rolls a 1 and then have another turn and it rolls a 1 again, does he have another turn? I think yes,because it isn't a reroll, it is another different turn.


Correct. Just don't roll 1 on a Leader or Henchman action
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Ricardo Pinheiro
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magic_erwt wrote:


Archidelic wrote:
But if the reroll is a 1, could I draw a card too? When reading the rules, it seems that I can't.


Good catch. This is correct. I go add it to the Compendium.


Thank for the answers!
Yeah, this was the rule that was making me more confused, why bad things happen more often? But life must be hard in the world of Aventuria xD

magic_erwt wrote:

Correct. Just don't roll 1 on a Leader or Henchman action

Lol, will try not to.
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Matthias Adler
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Let's start with the critical success, that is definitely better ;-).

Meanwhile with an english reference, I would suggest to change 'You must draw card from deck' in the flow chart, because even the english PDF tells you on page 8 'you "may" immediately draw a card'.

In general, for each of the criticals we should decide between two effects.
First, the roll of 1 'is always considered successful'.
Always means no exception, even if the calculated roll number would be zero or negative, then a thrown '1' is still a success. Modifications alike 'Bad luck' in duel mode (won't be enough) or adventure specific negatives to the roll could do that. At least in the upcoming monster-expansion 'Fire tears' there is a possibility to go below zero.

However, this is valid to the thrown result finally applied after all (maybe counteracting (fate, 'bad luck', fate, ...)) rerolls.

Second, the effect to 'draw a card'.
This one applies only, if the first die roll stands as the final result.
Any reroll used means automatically no card draw. And a directly thrown '1' is necessary (not by modification like with 'Luck').

Remark: Earning a fate point follows the same idea of 'the first die roll stands as the final (miss) result' of an attack. Besides earning by slaying leaders/henchmen or special conditions.

Effectively, that's all, so now up to the bad news.
And the bad news are: There is a difference between german and english rules as written (RAW).

The 'critical miss'
Nice point: The german rules about the thrown '20' are exactly mirroring the critcal success '1'.
Just exchange in the explanations/examples above '1' and '20', success and miss/failure, draw card and discard random card, ...; you get it.

You can see the differences on page 8 in the rule books even if you don't know german, just by counting the paragraphs of the critical descriptions. Critical successes and german critical failure have one long paragraph, the english failure section has three paragraphs, the two lower ones have a small different meaning.

German RAW mirrors
Quote:
This is not the case if the roll was a reroll due to some effect or an action card effect uppered the result to a 20.
instead of the english rules on page 8:
Quote:
Only a natural die roll result of “20” results in a critical failure. If the result becomes a 20 due to a game effect or modifier, this does not count as a critical failure.

If you use a game effect that allows you to make an immediate reroll (for example by using a fate point, see below) and this reroll doesn’t also result in a 20, then you don’t have to discard a card.


The natural die roll paragraph is fine, it is just a different way of an explanation compared to the german RAW.
The third paragraph fails, where it writes 'doesn’t also result in a 20', because even when a reroll comes up a '20' you don't have to discard like with any reroll result for any kind of first roll, if you play by the german RAW.

You deny your opponent in duel mode a card draw, if he throws a '1' and you play 'Bad luck'. Following 'Bad luck' or 'Luck' no card draw or discard can occur. However, a rerolled thrown '20' as last die result would still miss, even if you upped your chance by dwarf melee 14 + 3 (Warfare) + 2 (Self-Control) = 19 and applied + 3 (Luck) to a final 22.

The english RAW is certainly different and if you play by it, then it is explained fine by magic_erwt above.

Anyway, with respect to the flow chart: The 'discard card' block (or the 'draw card' block) are placed below the reroll decision (and only if it follows the first reroll decision with a 'No'). The 'always succeeds/misses' effect follows the last thrown result. Gain/don't gain fate points are fine.
You might exchange 'Pay fate' with 'any kind of applyable reroll ability (e.g. pay already received fate point only for attack or skill roll; not for simple attribute "test" rolls)'. Others abilities include 'Vigilance' for dodge tests and there are adventure depending ones.


magic_erwt wrote:

Archidelic wrote:
if the first roll was a 20 and I use a fate to reroll,
I wouldn't have to discard a card for the first roll, but if the reroll is a 20, then I have to discard.


Correct. The first die result is cancelled. You reroll and it's again 20 - then you eat up the die - and apply the failure event.
Unless you can/want to spend another mb.

So, if you play by the german rules version, don't eat up the die, you invested an ability to reroll and that is enough to not apply the discard effect. If you play by the english rules version, well, ... (and upload a picture!).

magic_erwt wrote:

Archidelic wrote:
But if the reroll is a 1, could I draw a card too? When reading the rules, it seems that I can't.


Good catch. This is correct. I go add it to the Compendium.

'A critical roll is not applied if a reroll occurs' in the Compendium should already cover that, don't you think? But maybe it could be worded even more clearly. After all, according to my outline above we have to distinguish between applying the 'always succeeds/misses' effect and 'not' applying the 'draw/discard' effect following a reroll.

magic_erwt wrote:

Archidelic wrote:
Also, if a opponent rolls a 1 and then have another turn and it rolls a 1 again,
does he have another turn? I think yes,because it isn't a reroll, it is another different turn.


Correct. Just don't roll 1 on a Leader or Henchman action

Yes, the henchman/leader definition of a 'critical' is about action rolls, not card draws/discards/success/miss. In addition, the action roll criticals only talk about 'A dice result of 1/20'. They don't follow the hero critical restrictions, that a modification cannot create a critical. Therefore, the special ability of the 'Tairach-Shaman' and certain events/leader actions can produce more critical successes/action rolls. On the other hand, a 'Blinding flash' onto an action roll '17' vanishes all remaining action rolls of leaders, wolves or a small Krakennewt.
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