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Twilight Imperium (Fourth Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Hacan flagship rss

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Paul Brown
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I know I've seen a thread already about the fact that the Hacan flagship ability can only be used on each ship once (so you can't pay 2 trade goods to add 2 to the die result for a single die) but do you have to roll each die one at a time to use this ability? It seems to imply you can't simply roll for all of the ships then choose to add hits or not. This could make a difference if you realize after all of your rolls that X number of trade goods is the difference between winning or not and then making that decision.
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Scott Lewis
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When rolling attack dice, if you go by the rules, you go in order from low-to-high "to hit" value. So if you have Dreadnoughts, Cruisers, and a Carrier, you'd roll the Dreadnoughts first, then the Cruisers, and finally the Carrier.

You roll all the dice with the same to-hit at the same time, however, but you must do anything to modify those rolls before you move on to the next set.

See the steps in 67.5. (Note that the the 3rd sub-bullet of the 2nd bullet has a minor typo, in that it says you roll for destroyers before dreadnoughts, but that's backwards and will probably be corrected).
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Clayton Threadgill
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Officially, you roll the dice together only for ships with the same combat value. You have to start with CV 1, then CV 2, etc, all the way to CV 10. To use a modifier on a die roll, it must be used immediately after that die is rolled.

So, if Hacan has 2 dreadnoughts, the flagship, and 2 fighters in the system, here's how it goes:

- Roll 2 dice for CV 4 (dreads).
--- Option to modify either of those rolls.
- Roll 2 dice for CV 7 (flagship).
--- Option to modify either of those rolls.
- Roll 2 dice for CV 9 (fighters).
--- Option to modify either of those rolls.

Hope that helps.
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Paul Brown
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Sorry I missed that, thanks!
 
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Alan Volz
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Does anyone know where we got the info that the +1 can only be used once? Or is that a core rule I've missed in the rulebook? We were looking and couldn't find anything in 3rd edition's errata/FAQs or the rulebook that limited it to once, so we let our Hacan player use it as often as he wanted.

And given the stockpile of trade goods he had (no one had taken the 'do not trade with hacan freely' lesson yet), it resulted in pretty much massacre in every combat.
 
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Riku Koskinen
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fynikz wrote:
Does anyone know where we got the info that the +1 can only be used once? Or is that a core rule I've missed in the rulebook? We were looking and couldn't find anything in 3rd edition's errata/FAQs or the rulebook that limited it to once, so we let our Hacan player use it as often as he wanted.

And given the stockpile of trade goods he had (no one had taken the 'do not trade with hacan freely' lesson yet), it resulted in pretty much massacre in every combat.


I don't think it's specified any further. But the ability says:

After you roll a die during a space combat in this system, you may spend 1 trade good to apply +1 to the result.

Timing rules from rules reference say:

If the timing of an ability uses the word “after,” the ability’s effect occurs immediately after the described timing event.

For example, if an ability is resolved “after a ship is destroyed,” the ability must be resolved as soon as the ship is destroyed and not later during that turn or round.


And then the space combat section instructs to roll all dice at the same time for every ship with identical combat value.

This means that if there are for example four ships with combat value of 6, you roll four dice, triggering four instances of Hacan flagship's ability at the same time. Once you have decided for each die to add to the result or not, the "after" time window is closed now. There is no way to use the ability for the same die twice, because the ability says to use 1 TG for +1 result.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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The timing actually still exists after the +1 is added. If another player (or Hacan for that matter) were to have a different ability triggered after the Hacan roll a die, they could activate it (assuming that's the correct initiative order).

There is a much better rule that proves that each die can only get a single +1:
RRG - Abilities wrote:
1.16 Each ability can be resolved once for each occurrence of that
ability’s timing event.


This makes it very clear that you can only use it once per die that is rolled.
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