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Twilight Imperium (Fourth Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Duranium armor - invincible against one ship? rss

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Jeremy Engebretson
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During each combat round,after you assign hits to your units, repair one of your damaged units that did not use sustain damage during this combat round

So ... if you’re attacking with a single ship, are all ships of your opponents invincible since the armor reduces reduces damage by one every round?

Also can you NOT use sustain damage on a bigger ship, and then use the armor to offset said damage? Basically needing 3 damage to knock out a sustain damage ship to kill it? We’re fairly confused ....
 
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Ragh Gavar
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Let’s say you have 2 Dreadnoughts with Duranium armor v 2 Dreadnoughts without.

First round of combat, they all hit. Everyone uses Sustain Damage and reduces their opponents’ hits to zero. All Dreadnoughts are now damaged.

Second round, only one Dreadnought on each side hits. Hits are assigned to destroy one Dreadnought on each side. The player with Duranium armour uses it to repair his remaining, damaged Dreadnought.

Third round, each Dreadnought hits again. The player with Duranium armour uses Sustain Damage to cancel the hit on his, damaging the ship and the opponent without the armour dies in a firey ball of tears.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I'm not sure where you get the reduction by 1 from.

You are repairing a damaged unit, not a destroyed one. Destroyed ones cannot be brought back to life, you are only repairing units which used Sustain Damage in a previous round (not this one).
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Jeremy Engebretson
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So, one ship with one die cannot, ever, destroy a duranium armor ship?? Seems so strong....
 
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Jeremy Engebretson
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Mordenthral wrote:
Let’s say you have 2 Dreadnoughts with Duranium armor v 2 Dreadnoughts without.

First round of combat, they all hit. Everyone uses Sustain Damage and reduces their opponents’ hits to zero. All Dreadnoughts are now damaged.

Second round, only one Dreadnought on each side hits. Hits are assigned to destroy one Dreadnought on each side. The player with Duranium armour uses it to repair his remaining, damaged Dreadnought.

Third round, each Dreadnought hits again. The player with Duranium armour uses Sustain Damage to cancel the hit on his, damaging the ship and the opponent without the armour dies in a firey ball of tears.


So duranium “resets” the sustain damage modifier back to 0? That seems wayyyy op??
 
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Avery Bailey
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In order to use the Armor, it has to not be hit in a round. If you deal damage to the ship in two consecutive rounds, it still dies. Only if you miss during the second round of combat would it get to repair
 
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Jeremy Engebretson
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Avemo3 wrote:
In order to use the Armor, it has to not be hit in a round. If you deal damage to the ship in two consecutive rounds, it still dies. Only if you miss during the second round of combat would it get to repair


This implies that duranium armor does not live on fighters? So one hit still destroys?
 
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Peter Walsh
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Hoc Spatium Mercede
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This is another fine mess you've gotten us into.
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Duranium armor only applies to ships with Sustain Damage, so there is no application for Fighters, etc.
 
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Scott Lewis
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foiegras23 wrote:
Avemo3 wrote:
In order to use the Armor, it has to not be hit in a round. If you deal damage to the ship in two consecutive rounds, it still dies. Only if you miss during the second round of combat would it get to repair


This implies that duranium armor does not live on fighters? So one hit still destroys?

Fighters don't have Sustain Damage, so they don't benefit from Duranium Armor.

To go back to Jason's example.

Lets say here you have 1 ship vs 1 enemy Dreadnought with Duranium Armor.

EXAMPLE 1:

Round 1:
You Hit
He misses
- Dreadnought uses Sustain Damage. It does NOT heal, so it remains damaged.

Round 2:
You Hit
- Dreadnought takes the damage. It can't use Sustain Damage again because it's already damaged. It is destroyed. Duranium Armor won't help, because the ship is now destroyed and the ability does not resurrect destroyed ship.


EXAMPLE 2:

Round 1:
You Hit
He misses
- Dreadnought uses Sustain Damage. It does NOT heal, so it remains damaged.

Round 2:
You Miss
- Dreadnought does not use Sustain Damage, so Duranium Armor kicks in and heals it.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Jeremy, can you confirm you have noticed the difference between 'damaged' and 'destroyed'?

That's why it doesn't help Fighters, as they are destroyed, not damaged, when you assign damage to them.
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james herbby
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foiegras23 wrote:
During each combat round,after you assign hits to your units, repair one of your damaged units that did not use sustain damage during this combat round

So ... if you’re attacking with a single ship, are all ships of your opponents invincible since the armor reduces reduces damage by one every round?

Also can you NOT use sustain damage on a bigger ship, and then use the armor to offset said damage? Basically needing 3 damage to knock out a sustain damage ship to kill it? We’re fairly confused ....
Okay, seems a missunderstanding how sustain damage even works.

Sustain damage does not give a ship 2 hit points. ALL ships will be destroyed when they take a single hit.

Sustained damage reduces the hits you assign to your ships by one.
Example wrote:
1-If you have a fleet of a cruiser, a destroyer and a dreadnought. The enemy gets 3 hits and you assign them. Everything in your fleet dies.

2-Same fleet, they get same hits. Instead you use your dread's sustain damage. You turn your dread on it's side, damaging it. Then you reduce the hits you assign by 1. Last you assign the remaining 2 hits. Usually your destroyer and cruiser leaving your dread unhit.


With that in mind let's talk duranium. Duranium repairs one damaged ship that did not use sustained damage the turn it is used. It does not add another "hit point" to it.

Example wrote:
You sail a dread to kill an enemy dread, you both have duranium.

Combat round 1. You both roll hits for your ships. You both use sustain damage to cancel the hits, but both damage your dreads. No hits are assigned because 0 hits were made. Duranium can not be used since both dreads used sustain earlier in this combat round.

Combat round 2. You roll a hit, they do not. They then assign the hit, destroying their dreadnought. At the end of the combat round, since your dreadnought used it's sustained damage last round, not this one, you may repair it.


Usually though, yes. In most cases if you have 2 dreadnoughts with duranium vs a single dread, even with duranium, you will almost certainly win since you will rotate which of your dreads is hit and repaired while they can not repair for 2 whole combat rounds, giving you 4 shots to their 2. (the first round, if you hit and the next combat round before they can repair.(Though be aware that there are many action cards that can turn the tide of a 2 v 1 dread battle))
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Jeremy Engebretson
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Yes there was a lot of confusion on the wording and how it applied. This thread helped immensely. Thank you!
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Jeremy Engebretson
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PS I lost
 
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