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Pendragon: The Fall of Roman Britain» Forums » General

Subject: How beautiful is this game? rss

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Eddy del Rio
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Received mine today and ... it ... is ... GORGEOUS!!! All the artists did increadible work! Thank you Roger MacGowan, Charlie Kibler, Chechu Nieto Sánchez, Kurt Miller and Mark Simonitch! I think the production is award-winning-worthy.
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Very Nice!

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Gavin Kenny
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Mine hasn't arrived yet, so I'm looking at the beauty of the board anxiously checking the mail each day.
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Jon Snow
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GMT is already saying that this is a very special game. I get that sense from the loving care evident in the fine articles by the designer who has blended history, legend, and very singular game design--especially for a series game--together to create it. So its not only the graphics which excel here, I suspect, even at this early pre-publication date.
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Jim Patching
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MWChapel wrote:
Very Nice!



My jogging route from my house takes me around the ruins of Isca Silurum. You can still see the amphitheatre, the soldiers barracks, the town wall, the bath house.
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Jon Snow
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laugh So you're Roman all over the place?
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Morgane Gouyon-Rety
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edelrio wrote:
Received mine today and ... it ... is ... GORGEOUS!!! All the artists did increadible work! Thank you Roger MacGowan, Charlie Kibler and Chechu Nieto Sánchez! I think the production is award-winning-worthy.
Thank you! It was an incredible feeling - and pleasure - working with these great guys (don't forget Kurt Miller for the art and Mark Simonitch for the counters) to bring my vision alive! I am a map-maniac myself and the more I gaze at Chechu's map, the more in awe I am...
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Joel Tamburo
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I'll get to witness this when one of my copies arrives. But it seems to look great.

Also, calling COIN a series is a misnomer. Aside from a superficial mechanical similarity (Command-Special Action) each of the games is a unique experience to the point where experience is not transferrable between games.
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Morgane Gouyon-Rety
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Joelist wrote:
I'll get to witness this when one of my copies arrives. But it seems to look great.

Also, calling COIN a series is a misnomer. Aside from a superficial mechanical similarity (Command-Special Action) each of the games is a unique experience to the point where experience is not transferrable between games.
Re the COIN "series"'s experience not being transferrable between games, I would beg to differ: while indeed every game is different and one may not expect to jump directly into a new opus solely armed with knowledge of previous games, there are a lot of common principles which help tremendously getting into a new game. In my experience of play testing Pendragon, veteran COIN players, despite the game being probably the most different (to date) in the series, found it quite easy to get going, once the differences had been outlined to them.
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Wendell
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GouyonRety wrote:
Joelist wrote:
I'll get to witness this when one of my copies arrives. But it seems to look great.

Also, calling COIN a series is a misnomer. Aside from a superficial mechanical similarity (Command-Special Action) each of the games is a unique experience to the point where experience is not transferrable between games.
Re the COIN "series"'s experience not being transferrable between games, I would beg to differ: while indeed every game is different and one may not expect to jump directly into a new opus solely armed with knowledge of previous games, there are a lot of common principles which help tremendously getting into a new game. In my experience of play testing Pendragon, veteran COIN players, despite the game being probably the most different (to date) in the series, found it quite easy to get going, once the differences had been outlined to them.


I agree - knowing one COIN helps with learning the next.
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Joel Tamburo
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GouyonRety wrote:
Joelist wrote:
I'll get to witness this when one of my copies arrives. But it seems to look great.

Also, calling COIN a series is a misnomer. Aside from a superficial mechanical similarity (Command-Special Action) each of the games is a unique experience to the point where experience is not transferrable between games.
Re the COIN "series"'s experience not being transferrable between games, I would beg to differ: while indeed every game is different and one may not expect to jump directly into a new opus solely armed with knowledge of previous games, there are a lot of common principles which help tremendously getting into a new game. In my experience of play testing Pendragon, veteran COIN players, despite the game being probably the most different (to date) in the series, found it quite easy to get going, once the differences had been outlined to them.


Hi Marc!

I'm not sure I'd agree. Transferrable experience would mean a player can jump into Pendragon right from, say, Liberty or Death and immediately grasp the flow of the game. Each COIN game has a fundamentally different flow of play to me - especially Pendragon.

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Michael Dillenbeck
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Concerning the picture, I think there is either some post editing going on or my board is defective. My colors are no where near as vibrant a hue, but more and desaturated. The dark colors are pushed more towards white, and the white colors more towards black so that nothing really "pops".

My favorite aesthetically in the series is also my favorite to play, and that is Liberty or Death and its gorgeous board. I wish my board either had colors that popped instead of looking hazy, but more I wish they either had gone for an antique map appearance or more realistic satellite view.

As to other elements. I miss my embossed irregular military pieces (one of the bits I look most forward to), especially since the raider helmet pieces look so close to the cubes and slip out of my sausage fingers more readily. The art reminds me of the 2004 film King Arthur, where Arthur was and his "knights" were just Roman soldiers who were sent to rescue Roman family. Castle pieces are a little smaller than I thought, but okay - and I'm not sure I like the use of prosperity cubes over some sort of prosperity stack of counters. One big flaw is board size - it may be beautiful, but it gets packed quickly... so packed that they don't include a control marker spot for the two cities! Aaaargh. My suggestion would have been to take the poayer piece areas and other tracks (except the number track) off the board and enlarge the map of England (twist/rotate it a little if needed, get at least 10% if not 20% enlargement). Show off the map some more, and make it so pieces don't blur together with an eye-straining search for borders at times. Heck - the Saxon pieces don't fit nicely in the area reserved for them; it would be nice if they did.

wifwendell wrote:
GouyonRety wrote:
Joelist wrote:
I'll get to witness this when one of my copies arrives. But it seems to look great.

Also, calling COIN a series is a misnomer. Aside from a superficial mechanical similarity (Command-Special Action) each of the games is a unique experience to the point where experience is not transferrable between games.
Re the COIN "series"'s experience not being transferrable between games, I would beg to differ: while indeed every game is different and one may not expect to jump directly into a new opus solely armed with knowledge of previous games, there are a lot of common principles which help tremendously getting into a new game. In my experience of play testing Pendragon, veteran COIN players, despite the game being probably the most different (to date) in the series, found it quite easy to get going, once the differences had been outlined to them.


I agree - knowing one COIN helps with learning the next.


I understand the criticism placed against Pendragon based on the cursory glance. There are no irregular pieces, and thus no active/inactive concepts to the pieces. These guerrilla factions were the heart of the system using the COunter INsurgency system, as was the whole concept of rooting them out. Even Falling Sky had this to ensure your enemy couldn't retreat in the same space. However, it is also correct that having one game does help you learn the rest in the series (even if Colonial Twilight uses a totally different turn order system than the rest of the series, or if Liberty or Death uses dice based combat, or each action behaves in a slightly different way because there is still a gain & place pieces/move pieces/attack with pieces set of commands, etc).

If the name wasn't taken, I would have suggested rebranding COIN into something like "The Hearts & Minds Series" (maybe The [Vox] Populi Series instead?) - because the most common mechanisms that I find fairly unique to the game is the influencing of the people. Most have support/opposition markers, while Pendragon and Falling Sky have wooden tokens placed on locations (that also double as bases). This would drop the notion of insurgencies and perhaps allow for more games into the conceptual framework.

So, yeah, I get why it is viewed both ways. I suspect it will be an awesome game, but I suspect those looking for counter insurgency play will be a little more disappointed in this entry into the series - while others will love the new territory this title dives into. I'm being excessively critical at this point, and overall it is a lovely game - I just wish it was a little more lovelier and retained my high-cost embossed pieces I love so much rather than the helmet pieces.
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Jonas Kissling
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Joelist wrote:

Also, calling COIN a series is a misnomer. Aside from a superficial mechanical similarity (Command-Special Action) each of the games is a unique experience to the point where experience is not transferrable between games.


Even if the publisher has on their website a section called "COIN series"? And then writes: "This series features Volko Ruhnke's game system presenting guerrilla warfare, asymmetric warfare, and COunterINsurgencies around the world - in both historical and contemporary conflicts."

Then it must be canon, doesn't it?

and also
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chuck reaume
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Quote:
Hi Marc!

I'm not sure I'd agree. Transferrable experience would mean a player can jump into Pendragon right from, say, Liberty or Death and immediately grasp the flow of the game. Each COIN game has a fundamentally different flow of play to me - especially Pendragon.


I actually think you’re both right. Games 1-4 in the series (Andean Abyss, Cuba Libre, Fire in the Lake and A Distant Plane) had enough in common as to be easily picked up if one was mastered. Each added small details that evolved the series (FitL’s pivotal Events as an example) but overall were similar enough that the basics could be learned very quickly. However, as the series moved beyond modern conflicts, there were additional rules and mechanics and were unique to each game (Liberty or Death’s battle mechanics became exponentially more complicated compared the first four titles). I found Liberty or Death and Falling Sky more difficult to jump into than the first four and it looks like Pendragon adds a lot of unique features as well and will require more time than usual to learn the game. Colonial Twilight, going back to a modern conflict, was more similar to the original four and thus required very little new to earn so I picked it very quickly.
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Morgane Gouyon-Rety
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reemer wrote:
Quote:
Hi Marc!

I'm not sure I'd agree. Transferrable experience would mean a player can jump into Pendragon right from, say, Liberty or Death and immediately grasp the flow of the game. Each COIN game has a fundamentally different flow of play to me - especially Pendragon.


I actually think you’re both right. Games 1-4 in the series (Andean Abyss, Cuba Libre, Fire in the Lake and A Distant Plane) had enough in common as to be easily picked up if one was mastered. Each added small details that evolved the series (FitL’s pivotal Events as an example) but overall were similar enough that the basics could be learned very quickly. However, as the series moved beyond modern conflicts, there were additional rules and mechanics and were unique to each game (Liberty or Death’s battle mechanics became exponentially more complicated compared the first four titles). I found Liberty or Death and Falling Sky more difficult to jump into than the first four and it looks like Pendragon adds a lot of unique features as well and will require more time than usual to learn the game. Colonial Twilight, going back to a modern conflict, was more similar to the original four and thus required very little new to earn so I picked it very quickly.
We are probably arguing on semantics here, which should not be a big hassle :-) I think "transferrable" does not mean "identical", which is what you seem to argue. Nonetheless, at bottom, I think we are quite close to agreeing that there are enough similarities to help with getting from one game to the next, and enough differences to make it an interesting and new experience every time :-)
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chuck reaume
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^ brohugs

i didn't mean to imply "identical" so apologies there. mechanically there are obviously a lot of similarities between all of the COIN titles but what makes them so great is the subtleties of each faction and their paths to victory. there's a reason I own every title.

And cannot wait to tear into Pendragon over the Holiday break!

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Rich Radgoski
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Impatiently waiting for my game
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Joel Tamburo
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GouyonRety wrote:
reemer wrote:
Quote:
Hi Marc!

I'm not sure I'd agree. Transferrable experience would mean a player can jump into Pendragon right from, say, Liberty or Death and immediately grasp the flow of the game. Each COIN game has a fundamentally different flow of play to me - especially Pendragon.


I actually think you’re both right. Games 1-4 in the series (Andean Abyss, Cuba Libre, Fire in the Lake and A Distant Plane) had enough in common as to be easily picked up if one was mastered. Each added small details that evolved the series (FitL’s pivotal Events as an example) but overall were similar enough that the basics could be learned very quickly. However, as the series moved beyond modern conflicts, there were additional rules and mechanics and were unique to each game (Liberty or Death’s battle mechanics became exponentially more complicated compared the first four titles). I found Liberty or Death and Falling Sky more difficult to jump into than the first four and it looks like Pendragon adds a lot of unique features as well and will require more time than usual to learn the game. Colonial Twilight, going back to a modern conflict, was more similar to the original four and thus required very little new to earn so I picked it very quickly.
We are probably arguing on semantics here, which should not be a big hassle :-) I think "transferrable" does not mean "identical", which is what you seem to argue. Nonetheless, at bottom, I think we are quite close to agreeing that there are enough similarities to help with getting from one game to the next, and enough differences to make it an interesting and new experience every time :-)


Yep!

I was just disputing the notion that playing one COIN game is similar to playing another. Each is a unique experience.
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Todd V
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The board artwork looks great, really beautiful. I'm very curious though to hear impressions of the artwork on the cards, from anyone who has already received the game.

I ended up canceling my P500 because the quality of the artwork in the previews was so disappointing. I'm hoping that the final printing turned out to be better than I expected.
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Wendell
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sonambulo wrote:
The board artwork looks great, really beautiful. I'm very curious though to hear impressions of the artwork on the cards, from anyone who has already received the game.

I ended up canceling my P500 because the quality of the artwork in the previews was so disappointing. I'm hoping that the final printing turned out to be better than I expected.


The cards are lovely - same quality at least as other COIN games. This is really a very attractive game.
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sonambulo wrote:
The board artwork looks great, really beautiful. I'm very curious though to hear impressions of the artwork on the cards, from anyone who has already received the game.

I ended up canceling my P500 because the quality of the artwork in the previews was so disappointing. I'm hoping that the final printing turned out to be better than I expected.
Sorry to hear that. Bear in mind that the cards' artwork was always meant to be used as a card illustration, i.e. a pretty small patch, rather than being blown as a full-fledged illustration. I believe you will find that at this scale, the artwork works great.
 
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chuck reaume
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Top to bottom, this is one of the best looking COIN games so far.
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sonambulo wrote:
The board artwork looks great, really beautiful. I'm very curious though to hear impressions of the artwork on the cards, from anyone who has already received the game.

I ended up canceling my P500 because the quality of the artwork in the previews was so disappointing. I'm hoping that the final printing turned out to be better than I expected.

The cards themselves are very nice. The card back is lovely, the icons at the top are crisp, the title font is appropriately stylized, and the card text is readable. The images on the cards are hit or miss, though. Some are beautiful, while others are...less beautiful. Still, since they couldn’t get the rights to the Osprey images, I’m not sure what else GMT could’ve done without hiring someone to basically hand-paint 80+ different pieces of 5th-century style artwork.

To summarize, if you are focused on the card images, you will probably be bothered by them. I think the card images are fine given the limitations, though, and would recommend purchasing the game.
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panzer-attack wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
Very Nice!



My jogging route from my house takes me around the ruins of Isca Silurum. You can still see the amphitheatre, the soldiers barracks, the town wall, the bath house.


OK, I am officially jealous. I agree the game is beautiful, but I admit I am a little intimidated by it. Would this be considered a 'monster game' or is it just that I have never played a coin game before?

I am trusting to the tutorial and my keen interest in the subject matter to see me over the learning hump. I decided the best way was to just jump into the tutorial sight-unseen, fiddling with pieces and puzzling over actual placement helps me more than reading through the rules before hand.

Am I the only one who finds those little triangle pieces (raiders) hard to pick up? If the pointy side is facing up, my fingers tend to slip right off the piece.
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Morgane Gouyon-Rety
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skipper1947 wrote:
OK, I am officially jealous. I agree the game is beautiful, but I admit I am a little intimidated by it. Would this be considered a 'monster game' or is it just that I have never played a coin game before?

I am trusting to the tutorial and my keen interest in the subject matter to see me over the learning hump. I decided the best way was to just jump into the tutorial sight-unseen, fiddling with pieces and puzzling over actual placement helps me more than reading through the rules before hand.

Am I the only one who finds those little triangle pieces (raiders) hard to pick up? If the pointy side is facing up, my fingers tend to slip right off the piece.
Always a good approach to get into the tutorial early on, especially if you are new to the COIN series: the concepts are not that complex, but they are not what you're probably used to with "regular" wargames, so seeing them implemented in practice often results in a "it's easier than it looks" moment...
As for the Raider pieces, they are meant to be placed with one of the flat sides down, so that you only get vertical sides and 90 degrees edges to handle. See the pics in the Example of Play for illustration. Really shouldn't be an issue...
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