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Subject: Question: "During your turn" rss

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Máté Berta
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Hi!

The other cases like "before something" or "during fight" or "during test"
is pretty obvious. What about the "During your turn"? Is it outside the actions or literally any time, even between figt action steps? This question appeared in my silly head when I looked on the Stimpack.

Please can someone tell me their oppinion, or even facts about it?
 
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Christopher Scatliff
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The consensus seems to be that "during your term" should be interpreted in the broadest possible sense. Meaning: any time during your turn. Before your first action, after your last action, or any time in between, including in the middle of any action. The one exception to this would be the explicitly-defined restriction on perk cards that they can't be activated during a non-movement action, only before, after, or between actions.
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Marcio Ferreira
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Smoo wrote:
(...) or any time in between, including in the middle of any action.


Not exactly, from the Rules Reference: Actions

Quote:

Only the move action can be interrupted by another action.
Each other action must be resolved completely before a
different action can be performed.
 
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Máté Berta
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I see! If there are no other cases that would shed some light on this, then
truly the common sense remains. Thank you very much!
 
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Christopher Scatliff
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"During your turn" effects aren't actions. They're not restricted by the text you quoted, which only applies to actions. There are only six actions: movement, fight, camp, quest, encounter, and explore.
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Máté Berta
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It speaks only about the "main ACTIONs": Move, Explore, Encounter, Fight, Camp, Quest
I'm talking about other cases like the "aid" item card: Stimpack
 
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Christopher Scatliff
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XenoQauritcH wrote:
It speaks only about the "main ACTIONs": Move, Explore, Encounter, Fight, Camp, Quest
I'm talking about other cases like the "aid" item card: Stimpack


Yes, you can use that any time. Marcio is incorrect.
 
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Marcio Ferreira
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Smoo wrote:
XenoQauritcH wrote:
It speaks only about the "main ACTIONs": Move, Explore, Encounter, Fight, Camp, Quest
I'm talking about other cases like the "aid" item card: Stimpack


Yes, you can use that any time. Marcio is incorrect.


OK, I was misleaded somehow, we're talking about a permanent effect, not something that needs to be ativated at sometime, right?

Could someone transcribe the card's text?
 
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Christopher Scatliff
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goryon wrote:
OK, I was misleaded somehow, we're talking about a permanent effect, not something that needs to be ativated at sometime, right?

Could someone transcribe the card's text?


The most illustrative example I can think of is the loot card "Junk" which reads: "During your turn, you may discard this card and another Junk card to gain 1 card of your choice from the shop or from the [loot] or [asset] discard piles."

This ability is not considered an action, so it is not restricted by the rule you quoted. The discussions I've seen about these issues have most people agreeing that there's no timing restriction at all on this. What this means is that if you looted a large ruin and drew, say, 4 loot cards, all of which would go into your inventory... if two of them were Junk cards, you could immediately trigger the effect on them to cash them in for another item before having to discard your inventory down to the 3-card limit.

This timing ruling also applies to other consumables like Addictol, Stimpak, Radaway, etc, but clearly not to items like magazines which specify they can only be used during the Camp action.

ETA: Note, however, that the rulebook does have an explicit restriction on Perk cards that they can only be activated before or after actions, not during actions. In fact, it is because this restriction was specifically stated for perk cards and not other cards that led people to deduce that other cards did *not* have this restriction.
 
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Marcio Ferreira
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Smoo wrote:
goryon wrote:
OK, I was misleaded somehow, we're talking about a permanent effect, not something that needs to be ativated at sometime, right?

Could someone transcribe the card's text?


The most illustrative example I can think of is the loot card "Junk" which reads: "During your turn, you may discard this card and another Junk card to gain 1 card of your choice from the shop or from the [loot] or [asset] discard piles."

This ability is not considered an action, so it is not restricted by the rule you quoted. The discussions I've seen about these issues have most people agreeing that there's no timing restriction at all on this. What this means is that if you looted a large ruin and drew, say, 4 loot cards, all of which would go into your inventory... if two of them were Junk cards, you could immediately trigger the effect on them to cash them in for another item before having to discard your inventory down to the 3-card limit.

This timing ruling also applies to other consumables like Addictol, Stimpak, Radaway, etc, but clearly not to items like magazines which specify they can only be used during the Camp action.

ETA: Note, however, that the rulebook does have an explicit restriction on Perk cards that they can only be activated before or after actions, not during actions. In fact, it is because this restriction was specifically stated for perk cards and not other cards that led people to deduce that other cards did *not* have this restriction.


I have to disagree.
From the Rules Reference:

Quote:
ITEMS
(...)
* Items that cannot be equipped (aid, drugs, and magazines) can be used while in a survivor's inventory.
(...)


So, you have to discard down to 3 card in your inventory before using your junk ability...






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Jan Probst
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goryon wrote:
I have to disagree.
From the Rules Reference:

Quote:
ITEMS
(...)
* Items that cannot be equipped (aid, drugs, and magazines) can be used while in a survivor's inventory.
(...)


So, you have to discard down to 3 card in your inventory before using your junk ability...

What exactly is your argument in that context? That a junk or water that is in the process of being looted is not "in the inventory" yet, thus cannot be used to avoid space issues?

Yeah, makes sense.

What about any junk or water already in your inventory when you loot more stuff though? Those should be fair game for interrupt/instant use "to make room" then if "in inventory" is the main argument?
 
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Christopher Scatliff
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Interpreting that way would make Addictol unusable if your inventory was already filled with three drug items. That situation alone is enough to make me reject that interpretation.
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Marcio Ferreira
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Smoo wrote:
Interpreting that way would make Addictol unusable if your inventory was already filled with three drug items. That situation alone is enough to make me reject that interpretation.


Could you quote Addictol?
don't have my copy with me...
 
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Christopher Scatliff
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goryon wrote:
Could you quote Addictol?
don't have my copy with me...

"During your turn, you may discard this card to lose Addicted."

So imagine you are Addicted and are carrying three drug items. Drug items cannot be discarded if you are addicted. There's an Addictol in the store.

If you were unable to use items before discarding down to your inventory limit, it would be impossible to ever use that Addictol, since you'd be forced to discard it (you're not allowed to discard the drugs). It makes far more sense, both thematically and mechanically, that you would be allowed to buy and then immediately use the Addictol.
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Marcio Ferreira
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Smoo wrote:
goryon wrote:
Could you quote Addictol?
don't have my copy with me...

"During your turn, you may discard this card to lose Addicted."

So imagine you are Addicted and are carrying three drug items. Drug items cannot be discarded if you are addicted. There's an Addictol in the store.

If you were unable to use items before discarding down to your inventory limit, it would be impossible to ever use that Addictol, since you'd be forced to discard it (you're not allowed to discard the drugs). It makes far more sense, both thematically and mechanically, that you would be allowed to buy and then immediately use the Addictol.


Can't find enough references to track this...
- How do you get "addicted"? only by means of a quest right?
- when addicted, are you forced to gain and keep a drug item? If not, you can save space for that Addictol.
- Can the Addictol be equipped, does it use an equipment slot? If yes then equip the Addictol (drop a weapon) to use it - maybe not very efficient, but it's the wasteland out there...



 
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Christopher Scatliff
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goryon wrote:
Can't find enough references to track this...
- How do you get "addicted"? only by means of a quest right?
- when addicted, are you forced to gain and keep a drug item? If not, you can save space for that Addictol.
- Can the Addictol be equipped, does it use an equipment slot? If yes then equip the Addictol (drop a weapon) to use it - maybe not very efficient, but it's the wasteland out there...


You get addicted by using a drug item and failing an E test. The rules are on each drug card.

When addicted, if you gain a drug card you have to keep it. The only way to avoid this would be by never looting, but then you'd never get the money to buy Addictol.

Addictol isn't equipped, it is used from the inventory slot just like other consumable items.

The only solution is to allow the discard power to be used as an immediate effect. It really is the smoking gun for this rule interpretation.

ETA: If it helps you cope with it, one user suggested thinking of it this way (I'm paraphrasing): "You have to reconcile your inventory first. So you could buy the Addictol and be forced to immediately discard it. But since the text on the card says you can use its power when you discard it, the act of discarding it to reconcile your inventory will trigger its power."
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Jan Probst
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Smoo wrote:
ETA: If it helps you cope with it, one user suggested thinking of it this way (I'm paraphrasing): "You have to reconcile your inventory first. So you could buy the Addictol and be forced to immediately discard it.

Yeah, good catch, the RRG pretty clearly says "you gain in excess, you discard down" so the item is in your overfull inventory for a split second, which is plenty of time to do things.
It even pointedly omits notorious often rules-laden terminology like "immediately" or "then" or such which could be used to argue no interrupting.

And honestly, treating these effects as very flexible super-interrupts is a bit of a relief. When I want the dominant theme of a game to be storage logistics minutiae, I play Merchant of Venus instead or something.


Next related question: The companion cards themselves don't say it (unless they have more specific implicit timing like affecting a test), but RRG establishes as a ground rule that Companion exhaust abilities are also "during your turn". I assume everything above would should thus also apply to companions that say "exhaust to blah".
(Some of them get a bit wall-of-texty as is, which I'd assume is the reason to make it ground rule instead of card text, saves space)
 
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Marcio Ferreira
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Smoo wrote:
goryon wrote:
Can't find enough references to track this...
- How do you get "addicted"? only by means of a quest right?
- when addicted, are you forced to gain and keep a drug item? If not, you can save space for that Addictol.
- Can the Addictol be equipped, does it use an equipment slot? If yes then equip the Addictol (drop a weapon) to use it - maybe not very efficient, but it's the wasteland out there...


You get addicted by using a drug item and failing an E test. The rules are on each drug card.

When addicted, if you gain a drug card you have to keep it. The only way to avoid this would be by never looting, but then you'd never get the money to buy Addictol.

Addictol isn't equipped, it is used from the inventory slot just like other consumable items.

The only solution is to allow the discard power to be used as an immediate effect. It really is the smoking gun for this rule interpretation.

ETA: If it helps you cope with it, one user suggested thinking of it this way (I'm paraphrasing): "You have to reconcile your inventory first. So you could buy the Addictol and be forced to immediately discard it. But since the text on the card says you can use its power when you discard it, the act of discarding it to reconcile your inventory will trigger its power."


Well, thematically it also makes sense that if you have a bunch of stuff in front of you (like when looting) you can use the items as wished, then reorganize the inventory, discard if needed and move on...


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Christopher Scatliff
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goryon wrote:
Well, thematically it also makes sense that if you have a bunch of stuff in front of you (like when looting) you can use the items as wished, then reorganize the inventory, discard if needed and move on...

Exactly. Either way, the discard abilities should be able to be used as a fast effect at any time.
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Eric Nielsen
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Smoo wrote:
Exactly. Either way, the discard abilities should be able to be used as a fast effect at any time.


What if someone wanted to use a stimpack after they rolled for damage but before they took the damage? Those are distinct substeps in the fight resolution process in the RR, but allowing it at that point doesn't feel right.
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