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Subject: We may not be alone rss

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Andre
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http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/18/politics/luis-elizondo-ufo-pen...

DOD studying UFO's, which I don't necessarily find unusual, other than the fact that it seemed to be a very secretive program. Conservatives like FOX News all over it, because it was the brainchild of Harry Reid. Reid defending it, claiming it was worhtwhile study, and approved on a bipartisan basis.

Not sure who to believe, but a gent that was involved in the study, seems to think that "we may not be alone". I tend to believe him. We are being too presumptuous in assuming that we, in this huge galaxy, are the only intelligent life forms.

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it's not important, even if they are visting us. They are not intelligent life anyways . After all they travel all this way to tip a few cows and anally probe a trump supporter in nowheresvilles USA.
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abadolato01 wrote:
..... in this huge galaxy, .....


Not to mention the other couple of billions of galaxies.....
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Eh, it is just our super-intelligent, CRISPR perfected descendents coming back in time machines on ancestry.com cruises.
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Khalid Shabazz
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Quote:
He said the program sought to identify what had been seen, either through tools or eyewitness reports, and then "ascertain and determine if that information is a potential threat to national security."

"We found a lot," Elizondo said.

The former Pentagon official said they identified "anomalous" aircraft that were "seemingly defying the laws of aerodynamics."

"Things that don't have any obvious flight services, any obvious forms of propulsion, and maneuvering in ways that include extreme maneuverability beyond, I would submit, the healthy G-forces of a human or anything biological," Elizondo said.

So UFOs exist based on eyewitness reports. Is this a joke?

Maybe the Pentagon should research how to defend against unicorns next.
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Andre
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crescent_gamer wrote:
Quote:
He said the program sought to identify what had been seen, either through tools or eyewitness reports, and then "ascertain and determine if that information is a potential threat to national security."

"We found a lot," Elizondo said.

The former Pentagon official said they identified "anomalous" aircraft that were "seemingly defying the laws of aerodynamics."

"Things that don't have any obvious flight services, any obvious forms of propulsion, and maneuvering in ways that include extreme maneuverability beyond, I would submit, the healthy G-forces of a human or anything biological," Elizondo said.

So UFOs exist based on eyewitness reports. Is this a joke?

Maybe the Pentagon should research how to defend against unicorns next.


I would not say that an 'eyewitness report' is proof of a UFO, but it is interesting to note that in may 'video' episodes, where something is captured on video, it does appear that these objects may defy laws of physics, or demonstrate capabilities that go well beyond what we can currently do. That might be room for concern.

Laughs, I do remember reading one article somewhere, a long time ago, that warned us not to be sending signals to other planets. We don't know who we're calling, and may not wish to find out!

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crescent_gamer wrote:
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He said the program sought to identify what had been seen, either through tools or eyewitness reports, and then "ascertain and determine if that information is a potential threat to national security."

"We found a lot," Elizondo said.

The former Pentagon official said they identified "anomalous" aircraft that were "seemingly defying the laws of aerodynamics."

"Things that don't have any obvious flight services, any obvious forms of propulsion, and maneuvering in ways that include extreme maneuverability beyond, I would submit, the healthy G-forces of a human or anything biological," Elizondo said.

So UFOs exist based on eyewitness reports. Is this a joke?

Maybe the Pentagon should research how to defend against unicorns next.


UFOs exist because they are "Unidentified Flying Objects" that, like Identified Flying Objects, are important to track.

I believe in UFOs because I believe there are flying objects that were not identified at time of the report.
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John Robinson
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Why we have yet to catch them on film

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Jerbear
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I think to assume that there are no other intelligent lifeforms in the Universe is silly. The most likely answer is that there IS other life in the universe. BUT the ability of traveling to our planet does have a leap of faith to it.

I am not an expert but it would be very difficult to do it.

It is safe to assume that life is a very rare occurrence. The conditions have to be just right and then you have to "get lucky' for it to happen. (of course we don't really know how that might happen") we can only make assumptions.

From our perspective It would be difficult for a lifeform anything like us to live more than 150 years. Eventually we break down. IT may be possible to make machines of some sort that could travel the stars for us.

The only "probable" way for it to happen is to somehow travel at the speed of light or faster. That makes for fun movies, but our current understanding of science makes it impossible.

So either Aliens have develop technologies that we think are impossible. Not just out of the reach of our current tech, but out of the league of EVER being possible. Or they exist and we are destined to never meet.

 
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Andre
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Syvanis wrote:
I think to assume that there are no other intelligent lifeforms in the Universe is silly. The most likely answer is that there IS other life in the universe. BUT the ability of traveling to our planet does have a leap of faith to it.

I am not an expert but it would be very difficult to do it.

It is safe to assume that life is a very rare occurrence. The conditions have to be just right and then you have to "get lucky' for it to happen. (of course we don't really know how that might happen") we can only make assumptions.

From our perspective It would be difficult for a lifeform anything like us to live more than 150 years. Eventually we break down. IT may be possible to make machines of some sort that could travel the stars for us.

The only "probable" way for it to happen is to somehow travel at the speed of light or faster. That makes for fun movies, but our current understanding of science makes it impossible.

So either Aliens have develop technologies that we think are impossible. Not just out of the reach of our current tech, but out of the league of EVER being possible. Or they exist and we are destined to never meet.



I think you are making the assumption here that our "understanding of science" is necessarily equivalent to theirs. Making the assumption that they are out there, there is nothing to prove (or disprove) that their powers may be substantially greater than ours, but making the assumption that we may have "grown" at a similar pace, is pure presumption as well.

Much like different civilizations advanced at different rates on Planet Earth, it is actually more likely that this also happened at an interstellar level.

Again, this makes the assumption that they are out there, which has yet to be determined. But if they are, I would not gamble that we are equal, in knowledge, skills, or technology.
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Syvanis wrote:
I think to assume that there are no other intelligent lifeforms in the Universe is silly. The most likely answer is that there IS other life in the universe. BUT the ability of traveling to our planet does have a leap of faith to it.

I am not an expert but it would be very difficult to do it.

It is safe to assume that life is a very rare occurrence. The conditions have to be just right and then you have to "get lucky' for it to happen. (of course we don't really know how that might happen") we can only make assumptions.

From our perspective It would be difficult for a lifeform anything like us to live more than 150 years. Eventually we break down. IT may be possible to make machines of some sort that could travel the stars for us.

The only "probable" way for it to happen is to somehow travel at the speed of light or faster. That makes for fun movies, but our current understanding of science makes it impossible.

So either Aliens have develop technologies that we think are impossible. Not just out of the reach of our current tech, but out of the league of EVER being possible. Or they exist and we are destined to never meet.



Not impossible, just out of reach of our current technology...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

Note especially the recent work by NASA's Harold White which makes the mass-energy requirement actually within the realm of possibility.
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abadolato01 wrote:
I think you are making the assumption here that our "understanding of science" is necessarily equivalent to theirs. Making the assumption that they are out there, there is nothing to prove (or disprove) that their powers may be substantially greater than ours, but making the assumption that we may have "grown" at a similar pace, is pure presumption as well.


This is really a pretty horrid argument. For this to be true, you pretty much have to assert that our fundamental understanding of physics is simply wrong in ways that basically break physics. Like "nothing can travel at the speed of light except light" being wrong.

Quote:
Again, this makes the assumption that they are out there, which has yet to be determined. But if they are, I would not gamble that we are equal, in knowledge, skills, or technology.


You're right. But the odds are probably at least as good that we're more advanced than they as the odds that they're somehow far more advanced. Hell, it's questionable whether or not we manage to make it another 100 years without blowing the shit out of ourselves with nukes.

I'm happy to accept the notion that there is other intelligent life out there in the universe. It's a very big universe so that seems to be just about guaranteed. I see no reason to expect that we'll ever meet them. Nor do I think we necessarily want to - there's no guarantee that they'll be friendly and it seems just as likely that they're exploring to find a new home (which we're inconveniently occupying) as they are to be looking to bring over a casserole and advanced tech to say "Hey, neighbor!"
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perfalbion wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
I think you are making the assumption here that our "understanding of science" is necessarily equivalent to theirs. Making the assumption that they are out there, there is nothing to prove (or disprove) that their powers may be substantially greater than ours, but making the assumption that we may have "grown" at a similar pace, is pure presumption as well.


This is really a pretty horrid argument. For this to be true, you pretty much have to assert that our fundamental understanding of physics is simply wrong in ways that basically break physics. Like "nothing can travel at the speed of light except light" being wrong.

Quote:
Again, this makes the assumption that they are out there, which has yet to be determined. But if they are, I would not gamble that we are equal, in knowledge, skills, or technology.


You're right. But the odds are probably at least as good that we're more advanced than they as the odds that they're somehow far more advanced. Hell, it's questionable whether or not we manage to make it another 100 years without blowing the shit out of ourselves with nukes.

I'm happy to accept the notion that there is other intelligent life out there in the universe. It's a very big universe so that seems to be just about guaranteed. I see no reason to expect that we'll ever meet them. Nor do I think we necessarily want to - there's no guarantee that they'll be friendly and it seems just as likely that they're exploring to find a new home (which we're inconveniently occupying) as they are to be looking to bring over a casserole and advanced tech to say "Hey, neighbor!"


I don't think so. Who's to say that they did not find the way to travel at the speed of light eons ago (or as another post showed, possibly greater), and are about to roost on our doorstep, if they haven't already?

I think we make the assumption by sending out radio signals that our fellow occupants of this universe want to hear from us, and that they will be friendly. But there is no guarantee of that, nor is there any guarantee that they won't be sgnificantly more advanced than us.

Wisdom from Rod Serling, that always makes me laugh, despite being mildly chilling;

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dkearns wrote:
crescent_gamer wrote:
Quote:
He said the program sought to identify what had been seen, either through tools or eyewitness reports, and then "ascertain and determine if that information is a potential threat to national security."

"We found a lot," Elizondo said.

The former Pentagon official said they identified "anomalous" aircraft that were "seemingly defying the laws of aerodynamics."

"Things that don't have any obvious flight services, any obvious forms of propulsion, and maneuvering in ways that include extreme maneuverability beyond, I would submit, the healthy G-forces of a human or anything biological," Elizondo said.

So UFOs exist based on eyewitness reports. Is this a joke?

Maybe the Pentagon should research how to defend against unicorns next.


UFOs exist because they are "Unidentified Flying Objects" that, like Identified Flying Objects, are important to track.

I believe in UFOs because I believe there are flying objects that were not identified at time of the report.


Yes. UFO's absolutely exist.

The problem comes when people assume UFO = Extraterrestrial Aliens goo
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Ken
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abadolato01 wrote:
I don't think so. Who's to say that they did not find the way to travel at the speed of light eons ago (or as another post showed, possibly greater), and are about to roost on our doorstep, if they haven't already?


A complete and utter lack of any actual evidence that this has occurred.

Besides, propulsion is just one part of the problem. Getting living tissue to survive interstellar travel would also be a pretty phenomenal issue. Avoiding death due to collisions while traveling at very high speed would be similarly problematic. A snowflake impacting you at speed approaching the speed of light would do considerable damage.

There's so much wrapped up in interstellar travel as to be completely mind-boggling.

Quote:
I think we make the assumption by sending out radio signals that our fellow occupants of this universe want to hear from us, and that they will be friendly. But there is no guarantee of that, nor is there any guarantee that they won't be sgnificantly more advanced than us.


Wait, why are we assuming anything by sending out radio signals? We're doing it because it's a good way to communicate here on earth, not because we're looking to attract E.T.

And while it's certainly possible that if we made contact with an alien they would be unfriendly, it's also entirely possible that they might pick up a radio signal (relatively unlikely - those signals have only made it around 100 light years) and be unable to to much more than send a reply ("Why the hell do you guys watch so much garbage?") and nothing more.

Worrying about an alien invasion should be the least of our worries.
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crescent_gamer wrote:

Maybe the Pentagon should research how to defend against unicorns next.


We've never been attacked by unicorns. So whatever the Pentagon is doing, it's working.
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Andre
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perfalbion wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
I don't think so. Who's to say that they did not find the way to travel at the speed of light eons ago (or as another post showed, possibly greater), and are about to roost on our doorstep, if they haven't already?


A complete and utter lack of any actual evidence that this has occurred.

Besides, propulsion is just one part of the problem. Getting living tissue to survive interstellar travel would also be a pretty phenomenal issue. Avoiding death due to collisions while traveling at very high speed would be similarly problematic. A snowflake impacting you at speed approaching the speed of light would do considerable damage.

There's so much wrapped up in interstellar travel as to be completely mind-boggling.

Quote:
I think we make the assumption by sending out radio signals that our fellow occupants of this universe want to hear from us, and that they will be friendly. But there is no guarantee of that, nor is there any guarantee that they won't be sgnificantly more advanced than us.


Wait, why are we assuming anything by sending out radio signals? We're doing it because it's a good way to communicate here on earth, not because we're looking to attract E.T.

And while it's certainly possible that if we made contact with an alien they would be unfriendly, it's also entirely possible that they might pick up a radio signal (relatively unlikely - those signals have only made it around 100 light years) and be unable to to much more than send a reply ("Why the hell do you guys watch so much garbage?") and nothing more.

Worrying about an alien invasion should be the least of our worries.


https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/we-just-beamed-signal-s...

I can't answer the why, but we are apparently reaching out to E.T. already.

And I am not worried about an alien invasion. If they have the capabilities to travel here already, then we are toast already.

I don't think the search for E.T or UFO's is necessarily a waste of time and energy, but I am not confident that what we might find, will be to our advantage.
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KissaTaikuri wrote:
It's highly probable that intelligent life exists somewhere out there. Unfortunately, there isn't any evidence that it has ever visited our planet.


When people suggest UFOs may be real, the evidence for intelligent life native to this planet takes a bit of a hit.
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Has noone ever watched Project U.F.O which was based on Project Bluebook?
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Reminds me of Three Body Problem.
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jon7167 wrote:
Why we have yet to catch them on film



Got one!!!!

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Syvanis wrote:
From our perspective It would be difficult for a lifeform anything like us to live more than 150 years. Eventually we break down. IT may be possible to make machines of some sort that could travel the stars for us.

There is no reason to believe that is true. From an evolutionary perspective, there generally isn't a reason for an animal to survive very long past the time it is able to reproduce. Organisms survive and adapt due to changing genetics, and if an organism didn't die of old age after reproducing, that gets in the way of the evolutionary process.

Pure supposion, but it is generally believed that the reason humans live so long is that older individuals still contribute to the survival of later generations by passing on knowledge as well as acting as caretakers of the children. So even though they women can't reproduce past 40 years old or so, they still provide a very important service to their grandchildren, making survival of the group more likely.

Anyway, there are a few animals that live beyond 200 years, some maybe g 400 or 500 years (greenland shark), although with animals that live that long it is hard to track for sure. With improved medicine / genetic manipulation, stem cells, etc there really is no reason that an organism couldn't live basically forever. It is just a matter of being able to fix all the things that go wrong over time, since it is inevitable to get some genetic mutations now and then.
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mistermarino wrote:
crescent_gamer wrote:

Maybe the Pentagon should research how to defend against unicorns next.


We've never been attacked by unicorns. So whatever the Pentagon is doing, it's working.



that's because it's almost impossible to find a virgin outside of a geek convention in the US. ;-P
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abadolato01 wrote:
Syvanis wrote:
I think to assume that there are no other intelligent lifeforms in the Universe is silly. The most likely answer is that there IS other life in the universe. BUT the ability of traveling to our planet does have a leap of faith to it.

I am not an expert but it would be very difficult to do it.

It is safe to assume that life is a very rare occurrence. The conditions have to be just right and then you have to "get lucky' for it to happen. (of course we don't really know how that might happen") we can only make assumptions.

From our perspective It would be difficult for a lifeform anything like us to live more than 150 years. Eventually we break down. IT may be possible to make machines of some sort that could travel the stars for us.

The only "probable" way for it to happen is to somehow travel at the speed of light or faster. That makes for fun movies, but our current understanding of science makes it impossible.

So either Aliens have develop technologies that we think are impossible. Not just out of the reach of our current tech, but out of the league of EVER being possible. Or they exist and we are destined to never meet.



I think you are making the assumption here that our "understanding of science" is necessarily equivalent to theirs. Making the assumption that they are out there, there is nothing to prove (or disprove) that their powers may be substantially greater than ours, but making the assumption that we may have "grown" at a similar pace, is pure presumption as well.

Much like different civilizations advanced at different rates on Planet Earth, it is actually more likely that this also happened at an interstellar level.

Again, this makes the assumption that they are out there, which has yet to be determined. But if they are, I would not gamble that we are equal, in knowledge, skills, or technology.



I am not making that assumption. I said in my post that they would have to develop technologies that we consider impossible (implying a greater tech than ours.)

In fact because of the suspected rarity of life I would imagine the trouble of traveling large distances is keep our meeting from happening just as much as the reality that We and the hypothetical Aliens survive as a species at the same time.

Again I think the greatest likelihood wouldn't actually to be meeting another species, but their machines that have been programed to travel through space.

Or as posted above having the ability to fix any problems with a mortal body giving people essentially immortality.

 
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