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Subject: Question: Leveling up twice in one action rss

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Sebbe Sebbe
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Hey

If I have zero XP progress on the track and I have two SPECIAL tokens (I need 3 XP to level up) and I gain 6XP in one action. Do I then level up twice or do I first level up once, add a new SPECIAL token (now making it 4XP for the next level) and then add the remaining xp to the track (so I am one short of leveling up again)?
 
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Christopher Scatliff
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The first option. This is spelled out in the XP rules:

"When a survivor gains multiple XP, he or she moves the peg for all gained XP, and then performs the steps for each level gained during that process." (emphasis mine)
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Chris J Davis
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Smoo wrote:
The first option. This is spelled out in the XP rules:

"When a survivor gains multiple XP, he or she moves the peg for all gained XP, and then performs the steps for each level gained during that process." (emphasis mine)


This may be the wording, but I don't think it is the intention. I would say the second interpretation is correct but that the rule is just poorly worded.
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Christopher Scatliff
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bleached_lizard wrote:
This may be the wording, but I don't think it is the intention. I would say the second interpretation is correct but that the rule is just poorly worded.


That's a bizarre interpretation. You think they included very specific wording only to intend the opposite? You'll have a hard time supporting that conclusion.
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LtP p.14: „The number of times the peg moves is equal to the XP you have earned. If the XP peg moves beyond your last S.P.E.C.I.A.L. token, you level up! You place the XP peg back into the far-left hole and start the progress over if you still have some remaining XP to gain.“

Option 2 seems correct to me.
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Jan Probst
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RRG seems quite specific that you move peg for all exp from a single source first, then perform any levelups.

Unlike some other situations (like enemy respawns, where LTP just has extra specifics not mentioned in RRG, ie not an actual contradiction/conflict because both can be followed as per Legolas Amendment), I'm inclined to golden rule this in favor of RRG.

Yes, occasionally that may yield a "free" exp depending on what you pick, but you know what? I consider the sheer ergonomics of "move and be done with the peg before bothering with levels", instead of "set peg aside mid-exp, remember stuff and resume" to be worth the occasional irregularity.
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Sebbe Sebbe
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Hmm yes it seems the rules are pretty clear. First XP and then you count how many times you leveled-up and then gain SPECIAL tokens accordingly.
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Marcio Ferreira
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Seb123123 wrote:
Hey

If I have zero XP progress on the track and I have two SPECIAL tokens (I need 3 XP to level up) and I gain 6XP in one action. Do I then level up twice or do I first level up once, add a new SPECIAL token (now making it 4XP for the next level) and then add the remaining xp to the track (so I am one short of leveling up again)?


I agree that it is option 1, 1st count the XP and then level up the SPECIAL tokens, but
Is this possible at all, I mean gain 6XP?

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Jan Probst
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goryon wrote:
Is this possible at all, I mean gain 6XP?

Haven't seen it, but 4 at once happens. That'd be 2 levelups at once if you're on the last Special token of a starting (or starting + only perks taken) 2-token bar.
 
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Christopher Scatliff
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It's also important even if you only level up once. If you have I, A, L and are on L and gain 2 XP... your peg goes all the way to I before you add your token from leveling.
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Tim Kelly
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We discussed this in "Rules Discrepancy in Gaining Levels".

The general consensus there was the LTP methoed was correct. I've also posted the same question on FFG's site.

Still waiting for an official answer. I realize it's quite possible the answer will be "follow the RR in this case", but man! That just seems wrong here. Wouldn't be the first time for an FFG game the RR was wrong, and the LTP was correct.

TK
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Chris J Davis
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Smoo wrote:
It's also important even if you only level up once. If you have I, A, L and are on L and gain 2 XP... your peg goes all the way to I before you add your token from leveling.


This is even more ridiculous and convinces me even more that the RRG entry is an error.
 
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Christopher Scatliff
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bleached_lizard wrote:
This is even more ridiculous and convinces me even more that the RRG entry is an error.


I don't disagree that that's a little silly and gamey. I just find it more ridiculous that they'd use such specific wording to intend exactly the opposite of what the wording says.
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Chris J Davis
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Smoo wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
This is even more ridiculous and convinces me even more that the RRG entry is an error.


I don't disagree that that's a little silly and gamey. I just find it more ridiculous that they'd use such specific wording to intend exactly the opposite of what the wording says.


Maybe the wording was just poorly thought through...? The wording for placing enemies is also incorrect. Multiple cards are missing the companion icon. The rules for scoring are wonky. It certainly wouldn't be the first thing that's a little shoddy about this (otherwise awesome) game!
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Selina Ryan
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Moppelkotze wrote:
LtP p.14: „The number of times the peg moves is equal to the XP you have earned. If the XP peg moves beyond your last S.P.E.C.I.A.L. token, you level up! You place the XP peg back into the far-left hole and start the progress over if you still have some remaining XP to gain.“

Option 2 seems correct to me.


the rules reference precedes the LTP booklet. if you gain 6xp you do the xp first then you perform the steps for each level you gained withing that 6 xp.
The LTP rule is just for a single level up.
 
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Tim Kelly
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sinisterselina wrote:
Moppelkotze wrote:
LtP p.14: „The number of times the peg moves is equal to the XP you have earned. If the XP peg moves beyond your last S.P.E.C.I.A.L. token, you level up! You place the XP peg back into the far-left hole and start the progress over if you still have some remaining XP to gain.“

Option 2 seems correct to me.


the rules reference precedes the LTP booklet. if you gain 6xp you do the xp first then you perform the steps for each level you gained withing that 6 xp.
The LTP rule is just for a single level up.

I think everyone understands the RR is supposed to supersede the LTP. The problem here, just like with the respawning of enemies, is: the RR just seems so wrong that some of us are assuming the LTP is the way it's meant to be.
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Christopher Scatliff
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tkelly wrote:
I think everyone understands the RR is supposed to supersede the LTP. The problem here, just like with the respawning of enemies, is: the RR just seems so wrong that some of us are assuming the LTP is the way it's meant to be.


Th RR isn't wrong about the spawning of enemies, merely incomplete. By adding the phrase "without an enemy of the same type" to the RR you get the correct rule exactly.

This situation is different in that the two books seem to directly contradict each other. (But I could still assemble a pedantic argument that they don't.)
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Selina Ryan
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Yes very true
 
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Andy McGarry
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Page 2, column 2, Foundational Rules (blue section) in RR: "This Rules Reference is the definitive source of rules. If something in this document contradicts information from the Learn to Play booklet, this guide takes precedence."

For sticklers, RR is king, wonky or undesirable as the rules therein may be. Therefore, option one is correct: move the peg as many spaces as XP earned. If this causes the peg to return to the far left, one level up is awarded. Continue moving the peg the remaining spaces. If this results in another level up, so be it. Once the peg has moved all the spaces it is allowed, THEN perform the level up procedures twice. RR is king.

This benefits the player in gameplay and thematically - a generous reward for a hard fought battle.


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GrilledCheezz wrote:
Page 2, column 2, Foundational Rules (blue section) in RR: "This Rules Reference is the definitive source of rules. If something in this document contradicts information from the Learn to Play booklet, this guide takes precedence."

For sticklers, RR is king, wonky or undesirable as the rules therein may be. Therefore, option one is correct: move the peg as many spaces as XP earned. If this causes the peg to return to the far left, one level up is awarded. Continue moving the peg the remaining spaces. If this results in another level up, so be it. Once the peg has moved all the spaces it is allowed, THEN perform the level up procedures twice. RR is king.

This benefits the player in gameplay and thematically - a generous reward for a hard fought battle.




Except that it's probably not for a hard fought battle. The most likely way for something like this to happen is by using a special ability that allows you to kill multiple enemies at once, or multiply your XP. It's kinda cheap and unfairly rewards players who were already getting a bonus anyway.
 
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Jan Probst
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Yeah, i would process all those different sources one at a time, not lump sum.
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Andy McGarry
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Unless FFG releases an addendum or errata, these are the rules we play. Of course, house rules precede all.
 
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D Anderson
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Your first solution is correct.
Example: you have S/L tokens and 0xp. you move to S-L-(obiously level with the next xp and reset your peg to the left spot. This doesnt "cost" xp, it's just resetting the track.)S-L-(trigger another lvl/reset)S-L.
You have now pegged 6 xp and triggered 2 level up steps. The rules clearly state that EVERY time you peg xp,you must move your peg under a special toke that you own. Ergo the leftmost space does not count for pegging exp.
 
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Jacob Herold
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I disagree (not with the fact that the rules say so - that's a given. I'm just sure that it's poor wording, and I feel the LtP guide supports this).

Leftmost space does cost XP to move to/from as it the starting point at every fresh level and the end point of your previous level. It is both the slot you'd move to go up a level and the slot to move from, when you start a new level. The LtP guide states you should stop, get your token and then get the rest of your XP, which makes the most sense, since the addition of a token is how the next player level has a higher cost (unless you pick a one-use perk).

I'll call it 0 in this example as it marks the beginning of each level. Each line represents moving from the leftmost peg (with no special token) and past every token and back to the beginning which triggers the level up. Each - is the act of moving the peg.

Lvl 1:
0 - S - L - LvlUp(0)

You then draw and select a P.

Lvl 2:
0 - S - P - L - LvlUp(0)


To explain my train of thought: Thematically in the Fallout games and similar RPGs, you start each level at 0 XP.
So, leveling would be like this:

Lvl 1:
0xp - 50xp - 100xp - 150xp(LvlUp(0))

Lvl 2:
0xp - 50xp - 100xp - 150xp - 200xp(LvlUp(0))

Which would reset the counter back to 0, raising the bar for the next level to be 200xp. Following that and the LtP wording, I am pretty sure the RRG is wrong (and IMO also not the best solution).

Edit: Also, why would you reward such a boost balance wise? It's probably a very rare occurrence, but I don't see why gaining a lot of XP should let you get a level at a lower cost, especially since this would probably give you a big advantage over others.
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Jacob Herold
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Icedpyre wrote:
Your first solution is correct.
Example: you have S/L tokens and 0xp. you move to S-L-(obiously level with the next xp and reset your peg to the left spot. This doesnt "cost" xp, it's just resetting the track.)S-L-(trigger another lvl/reset)S-L.
You have now pegged 6 xp and triggered 2 level up steps. The rules clearly state that EVERY time you peg xp,you must move your peg under a special toke that you own. Ergo the leftmost space does not count for pegging exp.


Actually, the rules clearly state you have to move to the leftmost hole.

"If the XP peg is in the hole beneath
the rightmost S.P.E.C.I.A.L. token the survivor has, and the
survivor gains an XP, the peg is moved back to the leftmost
hole
. The survivor levels up!"

From page 14. Source: https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/76/1a...

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