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Subject: Can the Ghoul fulfil "suffer rad" objectives? rss

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Jan Probst
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Like "suffer 2 rads in the same turn" on the first Far Harbor quest. (Very first quest, so hardly a spoiler I guess. Some sidequest or other also uses such objectives.)

His healing is a replacement effect ("instead"), so one can argue that any suffering never happens to score the objective, instead of prevented/replaced rads counting for it.

This would mostly be in line with general FFG language use of "instead", but being hard-locked out of various objectives, some probably quite thematically appropriate for a Ghoul, seems super wonky.
(On the other hand, might explain why jackass followers expected protagonist to off themselves in some reactor or other...)

Opinions?
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Christopher Scatliff
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I would say he can. I doubt it was their intention to have one character completely cut off from certain quest objectives.

Thematically, the faction is looking for characters who enjoy being in irradiated areas. The ghoul would certainly qualify and thus would be a natural ally for them, so it doesn't make sense to cut him off from that faction completely.
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Selina Ryan
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I'd say he can, but like his card says he would recover that hp. In my thinking he still is doing the objective in his own way.
He is still suffering rads from the objective, he just is lucky enough to gain health instead.

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Karl S.
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I think that argument is flawed. For the ghoul any radiation suffered is simply converted to healing HP, regardless of the source, i.e. objective, damage from a glowing one, irradiated terrain, etc.
 
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Jan Probst
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I'm not talking about cards that say "suffer rads here and now" requirement (like some Vault 109 duds or something), I'm talking about cards that trigger when you suffer rads from other sources anyway. (Best example being the entry quest of Far Harbor, as I said)
 
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Alex Smith
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I'd say 100% yes. The ghoul gets effected by radiation just like anyone else but it just heals him instead of effecting his level of radiation. If he doesn't get effected from radiation, it wouldn't heal him in the first place. When he suffers rads, it heals him instead, he is still receiving the rads, it just doesn't do him any harm.
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Jan Probst
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HuntersMoon wrote:
When he suffers rads, it heals him instead

Yeah. My problem with this is that "instead" is usually a Magic Word of Power in FFG metaphysics and not just an english word; typically it indicates a replacement effect and the replaced thing some form of "doesn't happen".

Edit:
And I note that the Ghoul's card does not say "when you suffer rads, recover HP instead" (presumably implied and unstated: instead of moving the rad marker)

It says "When you would suffer rads, recover HP instead".

"would ... instead" is pretty much verbatim the formula used to evoke a replacement effect in any other FFG game that uses such sorcery.
 
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Alex Smith
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If he didn't "suffer" from the radiation, it wouldn't heal him. He is suffering from it, it just effects him differently to the other characters.
Technically he doesn't suffer as suffer means: experience or be subjected to (something bad or unpleasant). But in the case of the Ghoul, radiation is a good thing.

EDIT: When it says It says "When you would suffer rads, recover HP instead". It says that because as far as the ghouls character sheet is concerned he can never increase his rads.
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Jan Probst
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"suffer rads" is also a game term while we're add it, it's relative pleasantness is sort of irrelevant (a game term/mechanic replaced with a different mechanic and thus not happened)
 
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Alex Smith
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Well we could be here all day, but without an official response which i doubt we'll get, the best i can do is simply tell you what i would do in this instance and i would do i have already said.

But another thing, why would they single out the ghoul in restricting him from completing a quest?
 
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Jan Probst
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HuntersMoon wrote:
But another thing, why would they single out the ghoul in restricting him from completing a quest?
Anti-ghoul bigotry seems to be a thing in the Fallout universe? He already has 2 disadvantages (even if one isn't permanent) in exchange for a moderately inadequate benefit. Might as well twist the knife more.

And in principle I of course agree with the "he should be able to do this" sentiment. For that to work he'd have to be worded something like "When you suffer rads, recover that many HP instead of moving the Rad marker".
I'm too kool-aid addled and steeped in FFG lingo to easily let this slide as is.
 
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