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Subject: 2 rule clarifications for new players! rss

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Drak Tok
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I've got 2 questions as a new player and I think I know the answer to 1, but not the other, but they kind of related.

First, when you're taking your action, can you commit that action in any order you'd like? Namely, if it says "move 3, attack 2" on the bottom of that card - can you attack, and then move? Or do you have to move first no matter what?

Second, if you've got something like EDIT: Attack 3, push 2, can you push, and then attack? And part 2 of this that I think i know the answer to, is that if you attack, and then push, can you avoid retaliation this way?

Thanks!
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Within each section of a card, if there are multiple lines, you must do them in order (or skip lines entirely). So if it says

Move 3
Attack 2

You could not attack and then move.

I don't think any cards say Push 2, Attack 3 (in that order). Usually, the Push is an effect of the attack. If a card says "Attack 3, Push 2," then the damage lands first and the Push lands second. So for instance, if you kill the enemy with the damage, you cannot push its dead body to spring a trap.

If you do Push on an enemy with Retaliate, it will negate the Retaliate (assuming you push it out of its Retaliate range).
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Matt Ziemer
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draktok wrote:
I've got 2 questions as a new player and I think I know the answer to 1, but not the other, but they kind of related.

First, when you're taking your action, can you commit that action in any order you'd like? Namely, if it says "move 3, attack 2" on the bottom of that card - can you attack, and then move? Or do you have to move first no matter what?

Second, if you've got something like "push 2, attack 3" can you push, and then attack? And part 2 of this that I think i know the answer to, is that if you attack, and then push, can you avoid retaliation this way?

Thanks!


Hi Blake

1: you must perform all actions in the order listed on the card. You may choose not to perform parts of the action at all(except negative effects on the players) but any parts you do perform mist be in order.

2. As above if you had a push 2 atk 3 card, you would need to push prior to atking so couldn't atk, unless you had a ranged atk somehow. I dont remember that action on any characters. Several monsters have that ability card combined with ranged atks though and Yes, they would likely not be retaliated on with that combination of abilities.
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Matt Rossi
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draktok wrote:
I've got 2 questions as a new player and I think I know the answer to 1, but not the other, but they kind of related.

First, when you're taking your action, can you commit that action in any order you'd like? Namely, if it says "move 3, attack 2" on the bottom of that card - can you attack, and then move? Or do you have to move first no matter what?

Second, if you've got something like "push 2, attack 3" can you push, and then attack? And part 2 of this that I think i know the answer to, is that if you attack, and then push, can you avoid retaliation this way?

Thanks!


Ability cards are divided into two attack actions. When playing the cards face down you are only committing to which cards you are using and what your initiative value is, but not which of those actions you are specifically taking.

Once it is your turn in a round, you can use the top and bottom actions in the order that you see fit, but each ability within an action must be performed top to bottom. You can ignore most non-negative abilities entirely (See other comments or the FAQ for examples), but you cannot change the order of them. In your first example, you must move before you attack, but that move can be zero. You cannot attack and then move using only that action. In your second example if the ability is written "Push 2, Attack 3" you can either push or not, but you cannot Attack and then push.
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Daniel McCrary

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Actions on cards must be completed in the order listed. You are allowed to ignore any action except one that's negative or one that provides experience. However, to generate the experience at least one other action on that part of the card must be taken.

If you push first and then try to attack, unless it's ranged, they will not be in an adjacent tile (unless you've cornered the monster and can't actually be pushed away).

Checking the wording on retaliate, it happens immediately after each attack, not at the end of your turn. The only way to not be hit by retaliate is to kill the monster before it retaliates. EDIT: As stated below & in the FAQ, some effects of attacks do push enemies as well. In that case you will not get hit by retaliate. If the push action was on a separate line of the attack, and not part of the attack, you would get hit.

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Pyrros Chaidos
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Q1: "When playing a card’s action, the abilities of the
action must be done in the order written and can’t be interrupted by the action on the other card." (pg.18)

Q2: It's probably "Attack 3, Push 2". In that case, you do the attack, decide if you want to push or not, and then check for retaliate (which might fail because it's now out of range).

"Attack effects are applied regardless of whether the corresponding attack does damage. These effects (except experience gains) are optional and can be skipped. Some character actions can also apply these effects without an attack, and in such cases the target of the effect is written on the ability card." pg 22

"Retaliate triggers after all effects of an attack have been applied" (FAQ).
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Drak Tok
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Dexter345 wrote:
Within each section of a card, if there are multiple lines, you must do them in order (or skip lines entirely). So if it says

Move 3
Attack 2

You could not attack and then move.

I don't think any cards say Push 2, Attack 3 (in that order). Usually, the Push is an effect of the attack. If a card says "Attack 3, Push 2," then the damage lands first and the Push lands second. So for instance, if you kill the enemy with the damage, you cannot push its dead body to spring a trap.

If you do Push on an enemy with Retaliate, it will negate the Retaliate (assuming you push it out of its Retaliate range).


So to clarify, because you're correct, I meant "Attack 3, push 2" - would they attack for 3 damage, and then push the target away before the target retaliates? Or does the target retaliate immediately?

Thanks!
 
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Darren Nakamura
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You would deal the damage first (3 +/- whatever the battle modifier card says), check to see if that kills the enemy, then push, then check for Retaliate. So if it is a standard Retaliate (range 1), the enemy would not be able to Retaliate. If the Retaliate has range, it might still be able to hit back (depending on how far the Push was).
 
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Drak Tok
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Perfect, thanks! So we weren't cheating when we allowed our mindthief to attack and push people away to avoid retaliation. Note we've only completed the first scenario, so we wanted to make sure we weren't making it easier on ourselves doing this.

We did, however, allow people to do the actions in any order they wanted, so we cheated a little. Dang!

Thanks though!
 
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Drak Tok
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I've got a new question, hopefully someone reads here, related to mindthief Augments and mind controls.

One of his ability makes target enemy hit another enemy for 2 damage. Do you draw your own attack modifier, or the enemies? We did the enemies modifier, but it occured to us it might have been the mindthiefs modifier.

Somewhat related, if he makes an enemy do a melee attack, does that enemy do +2 damage with the +2 damage on melee attack augment?

Thanks!
 
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michele c
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I am not an expert of mind thief, but I think the card you mention says:

..force an enemy to perform an attack..

If the enemy is the one performing the action:
-he uses his own modifier
-he cannot benefit from your bonuses
 
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Drak Tok
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mhl7 wrote:
I am not an expert of mind thief, but I think the card you mention says:

..force an enemy to perform an attack..

If the enemy is the one performing the action:
-he uses his own modifier
-he cannot benefit from your bonuses


Nice! thanks for the clarification!
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Also noteworthy, that card is "Attack 2" not "Attack +2." So it's not adding 2 to that enemy's base attack, it's just doing a base attack of 2.
 
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Drak Tok
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Nice, we played it that they did 2 damage flat, so we did play it correctly. Thanks!
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Jay Johnson
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draktok wrote:
Nice, we played it that they did 2 damage flat, so we did play it correctly. Thanks!

It is not 2 damage flat, it is an Attack 2. So the monster does an attack of 2 damage, along with any added effects on the monster's stat card (the one in the envelope thing), and an attack modifier is drawn from the monster attack modifier deck and applied to the attack. And if the monster that is being attacked has defensive abilities (shield or retaliate), those are also taken into account.
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Drak Tok
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We took an attack modifier card, but you're saying then that it should have done 2 + their base attack damage + attack modifier? Note this was just a guard hitting a guard. But if it did add their base attack damage (2) to the 2 it does, wouldn't it just one shot any other guard?

EDIT: Re reading i think you're saying rather that they would get things like "target 2" etc., not their base attack damage. Which is how we played it! Thanks!
 
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Chris Willott
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They wouldn't get target 2, the card is specifically for a single target. But if, for example, the monster had poison on their stat card, they'd poison the target.
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