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Subject: Firak strategy rss

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Matt V
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I really like the looks of the Firak for some reason, but I cant quite figure out a proper strategy for them. I rushed a turn 1 PA last game for the 2k income and 4c tech tile and went up on the econ track turn 1. Seemed okay, but I barely squeezed out a win and I didnt get good use out of my PI action, which is whag I find interesting about them. Does anyone have experience with the Firak?
 
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Space Trucker
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Firaks have a strong planetary institute. Usually you'll want to quickly get their upgrade->downgrade->upgrade->... machinery going and use it every round from this time on.

Easiest is probably to open up with a research lab and at least one extra mine, with tech advance ensuring that you can build the Plantary institute in round 2. A very nice opening would be e.g. 1 Research lab + 1 Trade Center + 2 Mines (good economy and very easy to upgrade to PI in round 2).

Once you get the upgrade/downgrade going, you're quite flexible about which tech paths you want to follow.

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David Stahle
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As Firaks ability requires them to spend a lot of resources building the same research lab I would say the the economy track and income tech tiles are good initial choices.

Another alternative to Space Truckers suggestion is to open with both a planetary institute and a research lab (which then is converted to a trading station).

Then you end round 1 with PI + TS, preferably 2 steps on economy track along with the ore+power tech tile. That would set you up to gain a tech tile and a total of 3 tech steps per round during the next rounds.

Then you have a solid base for maximizing the Firaks ability with the downside that your expansion on the map will have to wait until round 3.
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Space Trucker
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Steeleback wrote:
Another alternative to Space Truckers suggestion is to open with both a planetary institute and a research lab (which then is converted to a trading station).

Then you end round 1 with PI + TS, preferably 2 steps on economy track along with the ore+power tech tile. That would set you up to gain a tech tile and a total of 3 tech steps per round during the next rounds.
Haven't tried this in an actual game, yet, but if you manage
- to build PI and Research Lab in R1
- to not ruin your Ore income this way
- to not get boxed in too much while spreding slowly
then this should be pretty strong.
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James Wolfpacker
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I played Firaks in my last game against expanding Gleen and Geodens and a calmer HH. Of course they were all on one side of the wheel and Gaias were taken quickly. I waited until R2 to start the loop and formed a Federation to help with it.
 
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Brian Hawaiian
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SpaceTrucker wrote:
Steeleback wrote:
Another alternative to Space Truckers suggestion is to open with both a planetary institute and a research lab (which then is converted to a trading station).

Then you end round 1 with PI + TS, preferably 2 steps on economy track along with the ore+power tech tile. That would set you up to gain a tech tile and a total of 3 tech steps per round during the next rounds.
Haven't tried this in an actual game, yet, but if you manage
- to build PI and Research Lab in R1
- to not ruin your Ore income this way
- to not get boxed in too much while spreding slowly
then this should be pretty strong.


They start with 6Ore income instead of 7Ore which most start with.

For PI and RL in R1 they'd need 11Ore.

I've only experimented so far against the Automa but I'm finding it hard to get workers.

Any thoughts?
 
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Ramirez Kyogen
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evitageN wrote:

They start with 6Ore income instead of 7Ore income.
For PI and RL in R1 they'd need 11Ore.

Any thoughts?


To be exact: 11 ore and 17 credits.
To succeed, you need to upgrade terraforming once (+2 ore) and get 4 power in bowl III to use the action for 2 additional ore.
By useing the booster with 2 credits and 1 QIC, you have enough credits and the QIC will be used as ore.

I wonder what would be better:
The Academy opening (11 ore and 14 credits): 2 Techs and 1 tech upgrade next round.

PI + RL: 1 Tech and 2 tech upgrades (I assume the 3tht will be received if you manage to get the 2 power action).
 
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Thomas Lepetit
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Ramirez_Kyogen wrote:
evitageN wrote:

They start with 6Ore income instead of 7Ore income.
For PI and RL in R1 they'd need 11Ore.

Any thoughts?


To be exact: 11 ore and 17 credits.
To succeed, you need to upgrade terraforming once (+2 ore) and get 4 power in bowl III to use the action for 2 additional ore.
By useing the booster with 2 credits and 1 QIC, you have enough credits and the QIC will be used as ore.

I wonder what would be better:
The Academy opening (11 ore and 14 credits): 2 Techs and 1 tech upgrade next round.

PI + RL: 1 Tech and 2 tech upgrades (I assume the 3tht will be received if you manage to get the 2 power action).

I did that very exact opening with the Firaks in our first game.
Though the academy opening leaves you with one more tech in the end, you're in a much better position turn 2 with your engine already in place - whereas with the academy, you have to get a second planet, build a PI, build a tech lab. I cannot imagine having all those on the second turn.
All in all, I took first place with 167 points (and 48 from tech board). Firaks have only been played another time in my group, and the player went for the same opening due to my success in the first game, so I'm eager to hear how other strats are faring.
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James Wolfpacker
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I think that going for both the PI+RL>TS in R1 could really hamper the Firaks too much when playing against expansionist players. I played against 3 beginner players that were all on the other side of the terraform wheel. While I did win by a lot (30+vp), getting the PI in R2 and forming a Federation (that was the round bonus) didn't feel as easy as when I played them in Terra Mystica a month earlier (won by about 90vp). Of course, I had also had to take a not so great tech to get what I needed, so that should be taken into consideration.
 
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David Stahle
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evitageN wrote:
They start with 6Ore income instead of 7Ore which most start with.

For PI and RL in R1 they'd need 11Ore.

I've only experimented so far against the Automa but I'm finding it hard to get workers.

Any thoughts?

I only play 3 or 4 player games so cannot comment on the Automa game. But if you want to open with both PI + RL it is often possible to do so. The best round booster to accomplish this is "QIC+2 coins" but any round booster that provides ore will do.

Start resources 8 ore (convert the QIC to ore and gain 1 from round booster) and 15 coins.

-Build Research Lab: -5 ore -8 coin, Pick tech tile "gain 4 pwr" and advance on terraform track and gain 2 ore
-Build Trading Station: -2 ore -3 coin
-By this time you need to have gained at least 2 pwr from leeching, activate "gain 4 pwr tech tile". Now you have at least 2 pwr in bowl II and 4 pwr in bowl III.
-Burn 1 pwr to make it 5 pwr in bowl III. Free action to convert 5 pwr to 1 ore and 2 coins. Build Planetary Institutre: -4 ore -6 coin.

There are variants with better pwr leech from opponents that let you do this more efficiently, for example get the "ore+pwr" tech tile instead of "gain 4 pwr". Or if you manage to do a power action for 2 ore you can even save your starting QIC for later.

For this opening strategy I would do two steps on economy tech track along with the initial step on terraforming track. Your income for next round will then be:
+2 ore, +5 coin, +6 pwr, +2 knowledge (+ whatever tech and round bonus tile you got).

In round 2 build RL gain tech tile and advance to step 4 on economy tech track. Depending on how it goes you might be able to place a mine in this round as well. Otherwise you have OK income for expansion and the Firaks ability fully active going into round 3.

This opening would give a very favorable and flexible position going forward but, as both Space Trucker and James Wolfpacker has mentioned, will delay expansion which might be costly.
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David Stahle
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I do not believe that an Academy opening would be as good with Firaks, it would suit other factions better. Both PI+RL and RL+TS+M+M seem competitive.

Things I would look for when choosing the Firaks are end game scoring that is not dependent on many buildings/planets. With their ability they spend a lot of resources without getting board presence. Maybe satellites, sectors and/or planet types.

For round boosters the Firaks should prefer as few scoring tiles as possible, compared to other factions they have fewer buildings.

Finally for round bonuses it would be especially nice for PI+RL opening to see TS->4 VP (or TS->3 VP) first round. Also it would be good to have research step->2 VP somewhere in rounds 2-4.
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James Wolfpacker
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Steeleback wrote:
Finally for round bonuses it would be especially nice for PI+RL opening to see TS->4 VP (or TS->3 VP) first round. Also it would be good to have research step->2 VP somewhere in rounds 2-4.


I would probably do the PI+RL>TS in R1 if TS>4vp is R1 and TS>3vp in R2 since this would help to quell expansionist players. For all, please remember that the downgrade to TS gives you vp for building a TS when that scoring is active or you have the advanced tech for building TS for vp.
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Brian Hawaiian
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JamesWolfpacker wrote:
Steeleback wrote:
Finally for round bonuses it would be especially nice for PI+RL opening to see TS->4 VP (or TS->3 VP) first round. Also it would be good to have research step->2 VP somewhere in rounds 2-4.


I would probably do the PI+RL>TS in R1 if TS>4vp is R1 and TS>3vp in R2 since this would help to quell expansionist players. For all, please remember that the downgrade to TS gives you vp for building a TS when that scoring is active or you have the advanced tech for building TS for vp.


I managed 183 points as them against the Automa. I know it means little but still I was impressed with myself.

I've played 7 Automa games, one with each color against all 7 automa factions.

My highest score was 200 points with the Geodens.
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Jon Kern
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Played around with the Firaks last night and think that the prefered opening would be 1 RL + 2 Mines round 1 into ending R2 with PI+TS+2 Mines. Opening looks simillar to the following

Start Resources (O:6 C:15 K:4 P: I:2 II:4 Q:1)+Round Bonus

R1: Start adjacent to the white planet on Sector 3 or pickup the temporary Nav+3 round bonus. Spend O:5 C:8 to build a RL take an economically oriented tech tile that boost the income track and use 4 starting knowledge to boost the income track. Use terraforming power action or Nav+3 to colonize another planet for O:1 C:2.

R2 Resources (O:4 C:7 K:3 P: Various Q:0-1)+Tech Tile+Round Bonus

We need O:7 C:11 to Build our PI and a Mine. Prioritize the needed O:3 C:4 with your Round Bonuses and extra power. I like to take the O:1 + K:1 round bonus to get up to 4k as well. Build your PI. Build a Mine on a Gaia Planet or using the terraform power action this largely depends on the round bonuses you were offered. Use 4k if available and your downgrade to move up twice more on the income track.

Income at the end of round 2. (O:5 C:7 K:2 P:Charge 8 +1 Gain)+Round Bonus+Tech Tiles.

After R2 you probably need to increase Nav to 2 and continually cycle your RL. This should give you a fairly easy game with lots of teching and income to expand.
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jbrier
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Steeleback wrote:

Things I would look for when choosing the Firaks are end game scoring that is not dependent on many buildings/planets. With their ability they spend a lot of resources without getting board presence. Maybe satellites, sectors and/or planet types.

For round boosters the Firaks should prefer as few scoring tiles as possible, compared to other factions they have fewer buildings.


Some good advice right there.

Having played Firaks twice, I'm skeptical of rushing their PI, as the pressure of building a RL every round (in order to use your PI ability) feels inefficient so early. I'd rather build my infrastructure up a bit first and get the PI and its ability going in the mid-game.

Also worth mentioning is the significance of the Firaks' extra knowledge income. Similarly to the Ambas' extra ore and Hadsch Hallas' extra 3 credits, it's a big part of what makes the faction special.



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Jon Kern
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I think if you are picking Firaks you want to score around 48+ on the tech track. It takes both a decent source of knowledge income and your ability to accomplish this. I think you want with your first federation to take an advance tech for building TS is available also. It should be pretty easy to get this if its on the income track and reasonable to acquire if its on the science track. I think you can delay expanding for a lot longer than most factions and rely on income tech tiles, the income track, and the knowledge track to have high income despite the low building count.
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K O
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I think another important point that should be considered at the beginning of the game is where you will place your designated TP/RL for the up/down-cycle so you will not end up pumping constantly power into your opponents.
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Bobrov Alexander
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verandi wrote:

Also worth mentioning is the significance of the Firaks' extra knowledge income. Similarly to the Ambas' extra ore and Hadsch Hallas' extra 3 credits, it's a big part of what makes the faction special.


After two games for the Firaks, they seem weak to us. There is an opinion it would be better instead income extra knowledge, have 1 knowledge tech step. It would be a little more pleasant.
While it is not clear how to use Firaks. Early Pi is ruining expansion and the economy. Late Pi makes their abilities simply weak.
Will learn
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Jon Kern
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I think you want to open RL+TS+M+M and if you can't open PI+RL->TS instead. This requires the QIC or temporary Navigation round bonus as you want to take tech associated with the income track to keep your RL->TS cycle going every round while accomplishing scoring goals.

If you do open PI+RL, you first need the 1 Ore 1 QIC tech tile positioned to allow you to move up in economy and you need to take the 2 Ore power action. You need to be pushing up the economy track ending R1 at level 3 with income of O:2, C:6, K:2, P:7 +1 New. You then need to build a RL->TS R2 giving you two additional tech steps and build 1 mine. I would take 1 more level in economy and 1 step in knowledge. R3. I would cycle RL again finally getting 2 Nav and expanding outward.

I would not open PI+RL if you have to take a step on the terraforming track unless I got the O:1 + P:1 tech tile also.
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Bobrov Alexander
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Limitless333 wrote:
I think you want to open RL+TS+M+M and if you can't open PI+RL->TS instead. This requires the QIC or temporary Navigation round bonus as you want to take tech associated with the income track to keep your RL->TS cycle going every round while accomplishing scoring goals.

If you do open PI+RL, you first need the 1 Ore 1 QIC tech tile positioned to allow you to move up in economy and you need to take the 2 Ore power action. You need to be pushing up the economy track ending R1 at level 3 with income of O:2, C:6, K:2, P:7 +1 New. You then need to build a RL->TS R2 giving you two additional tech steps and build 1 mine. I would take 1 more level in economy and 1 step in knowledge. R3. I would cycle RL again finally getting 2 Nav and expanding outward.

I would not open PI+RL if you have to take a step on the terraforming track unless I got the O:1 + P:1 tech tile also.


Thank you! I will wait for a successful setup to try this

 
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Jack Liu
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The 6o start seems rough for this race. RL+2M is fine but you need +3o and another settlable planet to get RL+TS+2M

Best bet would probably try to play from an early seat, aim at 2o act and go RL+TS+1M. I also would want the 1o+1k boost in the game so you can take it in R1/2 so you can have that extra 1k to hit 4K in R2. Also the Ore helps to get you to 4ore in R2 for PI

Boost Econ to lvl2 in R1. R2 income: 5c, 3-4o, 2pw + 1 income tile. With 1o+1k in either round, that will give you the 4 ore for sure to build PI.

Your 2 bumps this round could be to Econ 4 and try to take the 2k pw act in R2/3 so you can maintain 4K. Get sci 2 in R3. Or the other way around and get sci 2 in R2 and Econ 4 in R3.

I think Econ route is better as it will make it easier to build more in R3. Also allows you to get adv tech there
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Jon Kern
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Quote:
The 6o start seems rough for this race. RL+2M is fine but you need +3o and another settlable planet to get RL+TS+2M

Best bet would probably try to play from an early seat, aim at 2o act and go RL+TS+1M. I also would want the 1o+1k boost in the game so you can take it in R1/2 so you can have that extra 1k to hit 4K in R2. Also the Ore helps to get you to 4ore in R2 for PI

Boost Econ to lvl2 in R1. R2 income: 5c, 3-4o, 2pw + 1 income tile. With 1o+1k in either round, that will give you the 4 ore for sure to build PI.

Your 2 bumps this round could be to Econ 4 and try to take the 2k pw act in R2/3 so you can maintain 4K. Get sci 2 in R3. Or the other way around and get sci 2 in R2 and Econ 4 in R3.

I think Econ route is better as it will make it easier to build more in R3. Also allows you to get adv tech there


It sucks, but you just lose if you open RL+2M. I think you should play Bescods on any layout where the 1 ore is going to break you.
 
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Space Trucker
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Limitless333 wrote:
It sucks, but you just lose if you open RL+2M. I think you should play Bescods on any layout where the 1 ore is going to break you.

"Lose" sounds pretty drastic here (maybe I get you wrong).
Terra Mystica experience tells that a very good second round can very well compensate for an average opening.

With a bellow optimal opening wih fewer structures you'll usually
- give the opponents less power
- have a bit of resources and possibly power left that can be spent next round, where you are more likely to get a strong power action, as you've passed earlier
- have relied less on one time effects than on constant income (Gaia specific)

All of this will of course seldom overcompensate the benefit of e.g. an additional mine, but in my experience there's no real damage done if the start only gives you something like a RL+2M opening (or RL+3M or RS+TS+M, which have roughly the same income). One can still pull of a good game.
 
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Jack Liu
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Limitless333 wrote:
Quote:
The 6o start seems rough for this race. RL+2M is fine but you need +3o and another settlable planet to get RL+TS+2M

Best bet would probably try to play from an early seat, aim at 2o act and go RL+TS+1M. I also would want the 1o+1k boost in the game so you can take it in R1/2 so you can have that extra 1k to hit 4K in R2. Also the Ore helps to get you to 4ore in R2 for PI

Boost Econ to lvl2 in R1. R2 income: 5c, 3-4o, 2pw + 1 income tile. With 1o+1k in either round, that will give you the 4 ore for sure to build PI.

Your 2 bumps this round could be to Econ 4 and try to take the 2k pw act in R2/3 so you can maintain 4K. Get sci 2 in R3. Or the other way around and get sci 2 in R2 and Econ 4 in R3.

I think Econ route is better as it will make it easier to build more in R3. Also allows you to get adv tech there


It sucks, but you just lose if you open RL+2M. I think you should play Bescods on any layout where the 1 ore is going to break you.


RL+2M is not ideal but I think RL+TS+1M is fine if you go econ2. You should reach similar resources to a RL+TS+2M opening that went up TF for the 2 ore
 
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Jon Kern
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Quote:
RL+2M is not ideal but I think RL+TS+1M is fine if you go econ2. You should reach similar resources to a RL+TS+2M opening that went up TF for the 2 ore


The main issue is that it does not get any easier to end round 2 with PI+RL->TS+2M opening with a worse opener in fact it gets harder or at best remains the same. I don't disagree that it is possible to win if enough factors are in your favor, but giving opposition of equal skill an advantage by choosing a faction that had to open with a weaker economy than average seems foolish. Just pick Bescods if you can't open this way and get your extra ore why are you choosing Firaks in such a bad position?

I really don't want to go into it more, as I have argued this point forever, but if people want to play against me and voluntarily choose factions that have to open weak than I'm fine with it and will gladly accept my early economic lead.
 
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