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Subject: Duplication chamber and Ride Improvement. rss

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Leo Settipani
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How do the Duplication chamber and Ride Improvement lab upgrades interact with each other? If I double the VPs earned using ride improvement can I then double the new VP value if I use duplication chamber to duplicate ride improvement? Thanks
 
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Brian Lewis
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JimmyWhisper wrote:
How do the Duplication chamber and Ride Improvement lab upgrades interact with each other? If I double the VPs earned using ride improvement can I then double the new VP value if I use duplication chamber to duplicate ride improvement? Thanks


Duplication Chamber states: Duplicate the action of another (non-green) tile in your lab.

So, you are duplicating the initial ability of the tile, not the already used ability.

In the scenario above, you would use the ride improvement to double the VPs; then you could use the Duplication Chamber to agin use the ride improvement to give you double VPs.
 
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Jeremiah
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scoresfilm wrote:
JimmyWhisper wrote:
How do the Duplication chamber and Ride Improvement lab upgrades interact with each other? If I double the VPs earned using ride improvement can I then double the new VP value if I use duplication chamber to duplicate ride improvement? Thanks


Duplication Chamber states: Duplicate the action of another (non-green) tile in your lab.

So, you are duplicating the initial ability of the tile, not the already used ability.

In the scenario above, you would use the ride improvement to double the VPs; then you could use the Duplication Chamber to agin use the ride improvement to give you double VPs.


Just to make sure I'm understanding, Duplication Chamber doesn't really work with the Ride Improvement upgrade to multiply VP score a second time, correct?
 
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Brian Lewis
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orson9999999 wrote:
scoresfilm wrote:
JimmyWhisper wrote:
How do the Duplication chamber and Ride Improvement lab upgrades interact with each other? If I double the VPs earned using ride improvement can I then double the new VP value if I use duplication chamber to duplicate ride improvement? Thanks


Duplication Chamber states: Duplicate the action of another (non-green) tile in your lab.

So, you are duplicating the initial ability of the tile, not the already used ability.

In the scenario above, you would use the ride improvement to double the VPs; then you could use the Duplication Chamber to agin use the ride improvement to give you double VPs.


Just to make sure I'm understanding, Duplication Chamber doesn't really work with the Ride Improvement upgrade to multiply VP score a second time, correct?


I'm not sure what you mean by "doesn't really work with the Ride Improvement upgrade"?

Let's say I have Ride Improvement and Duplication Chamber in my lab.

I place 2 workers on Ride improvement. I now score 2x VPs for patrons at any 1 attraction this round. For sake of this example, let's say I place 2 patrons at Dinosaur Fryland in Phase 4. I decide to take the VPs, and because I placed 2 patrons and used the Ride Improvement, I will score 4 VP.

I also decided to use Duplication Chamber in my lab by placing 2 workers on it. I decide to duplicate the action of Ride Improvement which I had used previously. I will score another 4 VP.

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Jeremiah
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scoresfilm wrote:
orson9999999 wrote:
scoresfilm wrote:
JimmyWhisper wrote:
How do the Duplication chamber and Ride Improvement lab upgrades interact with each other? If I double the VPs earned using ride improvement can I then double the new VP value if I use duplication chamber to duplicate ride improvement? Thanks


Duplication Chamber states: Duplicate the action of another (non-green) tile in your lab.

So, you are duplicating the initial ability of the tile, not the already used ability.

In the scenario above, you would use the ride improvement to double the VPs; then you could use the Duplication Chamber to agin use the ride improvement to give you double VPs.


Just to make sure I'm understanding, Duplication Chamber doesn't really work with the Ride Improvement upgrade to multiply VP score a second time, correct?


I'm not sure what you mean by "doesn't really work with the Ride Improvement upgrade"?

Let's say I have Ride Improvement and Duplication Chamber in my lab.

I place 2 workers on Ride improvement. I now score 2x VPs for patrons at any 1 attraction this round. For sake of this example, let's say I place 2 patrons at Dinosaur Fryland in Phase 4. I decide to take the VPs, and because I placed 2 patrons and used the Ride Improvement, I will score 4 VP.

I also decided to use Duplication Chamber in my lab by placing 2 workers on it. I decide to duplicate the action of Ride Improvement which I had used previously. I will score another 4 VP.



OK, I understand now. Apparently, my brain just isn't working right today.
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Francis Rivest
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I gotta say, i still don't understand this perfectly. First of all, when score double points do you count extra patrons like "chef"?

Second of all, if there are 2 patrons there, you can score 4 VP. So the attractions score 4 VP INSTEAD of the normal 2 VP right? Then if you do this again, the double would be 8 points? How is it 4 again? Unless the lab upgrade makes you score 2x patrons and the normal patrons i would understand. The way i see it, it's either :

- 1. The attraction makes more points : Score double the points on a attaction : so instead of 2 you score 4, then again that would be instead of 4 you score 8...

-2. The upgrade makes points : You get double the normal score each time you play ride improvement, so 2 points for the patrons (the attraction), then 4 for ride improvement, then 4 for ride improvement.

How can it be 4 points and then again 4 points? If ride improvement makes you score instead of scoring normal points (transforming the attraction to 4 points), applying the effect a second time shouldn't change anything since it's not the upgrade that score but the attraction.

I'm so confused by this.
 
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Ulises Espejo Vigil
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scoresfilm wrote:

Let's say I have Ride Improvement and Duplication Chamber in my lab.

I place 2 workers on Ride improvement. I now score 2x VPs for patrons at any 1 attraction this round. For sake of this example, let's say I place 2 patrons at Dinosaur Fryland in Phase 4. I decide to take the VPs, and because I placed 2 patrons and used the Ride Improvement, I will score 4 VP.

I also decided to use Duplication Chamber in my lab by placing 2 workers on it. I decide to duplicate the action of Ride Improvement which I had used previously. I will score another 4 VP.



I kind of agree with the previous post by Francis. In this example, there’s something a bit unclear. Ride improvement effectively scores 2 more points. 2 came from Dinosaur Fryland then another 2 from doubling up with Ride Improvement.
Saying it’s 4 more points is basically piling up the bonuses, 2*2*2=8, but the wording before that kind of implies this would be incorrect.

I would say Duplication Chamber needs to use a different attraction unless the same attraction can be doubled twice (=quadrupled)?

However, the wording seems to suggest Duplication Chamber is 2 more points only, doubling the same attraction’s base visitors only (can’t pile up multipliers).



Re. Chef I assume the extra patron is also doubled as he’s in the attraction.
 
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Francis Rivest
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Yeah i though about it again and my previous option #1 seems to accord to what Brian Lewis said, so it's 2*2*2 which is 8. In my last game my friend had the Clever Grill and the specialist chef. So he made 5 points. Double that he was making 10 points per turn. Then..with duplication chamber he made 20 points per turns.

There actually is 2 duplication chamber so i'm still not sure if he could have gotten to 40 points per turn. 20 is overkill. 40 is a automatic victory pretty much. I wonder if Brian could clear all of this up.
 
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Brian Lewis
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Gazevil wrote:
Yeah i though about it again and my previous option #1 seems to accord to what Brian Lewis said, so it's 2*2*2 which is 8. In my last game my friend had the Clever Grill and the specialist chef. So he made 5 points. Double that he was making 10 points per turn. Then..with duplication chamber he made 20 points per turns.

There actually is 2 duplication chamber so i'm still not sure if he could have gotten to 40 points per turn. 20 is overkill. 40 is a automatic victory pretty much. I wonder if Brian could clear all of this up.



Ride improvement states: Score 2x VPs for patrons at any 1 attraction this round.
So, on my turn, I will take one attraction and score 2x VPs. (for example, I have 2 patrons visiting an attraction. Instead of scoring my normal 2 VP for that round, I will now score 4 VP)

Duplication Chamber states: Duplicate the action of another (non-green) upgrade in your lab. This is just basically taking another action again.

I choose to duplicate ride improvement. When it comes to score, I will choose any 1 attraction and score 2x VP of that attraction. (I do not score the base VP from placing patrons there)

In the case of a specialist that allows you to place a patron at an attraction, that patron does count towards the total VP scored on that attraction.

So, that being said, let's say I have 2 patrons at an attraction that can hold 2 patrons.

I use Ride Improvement to score 2 x 2VP for 4 VP. (I do not score the base 2 vp first or in addition.)

I use Duplication chamber to use the ability of Ride Improvement. I will score 2 x 2VP for 4 VP. I do not score the base 2 VP in addition.

In this examples, I will have scored 8 VP from my attraction during phase 4.

Hope this clears things up.
 
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Ulises Espejo Vigil
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Thanks Brian.

I think I know where the confusion lies. We never thought the lab upgrade scored 4vp on top of the 2vp for the attraction. Our concern was whether the Duplication Chamber copying Ride Improvement was piling up the multiplier or just getting the 2 extra VP. From your clarification, we understand it piles it up, but only once. It's basically doubling the first double effect. A second Duplication Chamber would be 4vp more following your example, right?
 
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Brian Lewis
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Yes, if you're lucky enough to get that combo; you would have to cover up either the Venture Capital or Toolbench to do it.
 
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Francis Rivest
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Or get the specialist that lets get abother upgrade . So if i understand : let's says i have 4 spaces on a attraction with patrons, ride improvenent and 2 duplication chamber it would go : 4 *2 =8, + 4*2=8, + 4*2 =8 so that would be 24 point (if i use ride improvement 3 times on the same tile). ?
 
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Brian Lewis
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Yes
 
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Alexander
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Well, for me, it's the most confusing thing in the game. Each time we play there's a heated argument about it. I've read a lot of FAQ, but it's still unclear.

Let's assume I have an attraction with 2 patrons. There are also Ride Improvement and Duplication Chamber in my lab. Three outcomes are possible then:
1) I decide not to use anything. I score 2 base VP.
2) I use Ride Improvement and score 2*2=4 VP. But actually it's only 2 VP extra.
3) I use both upgrades and score 4+4=8 VP. It's 6 VP more than the base VP. From these 6 I gain 2 VP via Ride Improvement and 4 VP via Duplication Chamber (because it somehow triggers base scoring again.) In this case the tile action is rather doubled than duplicated.

Let's consider another thought experiment. I have 2 attractions with 2 patrons each. And I have also 2 Ride Improvements.
1) I decide not to use anything. I score 2+2=4 base VP.
2) I use both upgrades for different attractions. I score 4+4=8 VP.
3) I use both upgrades choosing the same attracion. I score 4+4 (for the first one) + 2 (base VP for the second one) = 10 VP.

It looks like a kind of paradox. I think I should gain the same amount of VP in both cases, but when I score an attraction I've already scored I produce 2 extra VP out of thin air.


Someone has suggested another reading of the Ride Improvement tile: "Score VPs for patrons at any 1 attraction one more time this round." In this case Chamber would work the same as Ride Improvement. But I wonder if it was so intended. It's seems strange that the Chamber doubles Ride Improvements and simply duplicates other tiles (including Better Tool Bench which is not doubled).

Please help! Maybe I'm misunderstanding?
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