Gustavo Sanchez
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I ask cause I've only played a few times with the core, and it's been a couple years since I've played. But I have LoMO, and plan to get WoMO, and
I'm in the process of brushing up on the rules. I'm tempted to just throw in at least LoMO.

Thing is, I'll be playing with a new player, and though he hasn't played the game at all before, he's a big video gamer, and has a keen interest in the game and lore (he's read the Trilogy and watched the movies).

Does anyone have any opinions on this?

Thanks!
 
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Jason Dexter
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I would suggest to play the base game first at least 3 times with him. Too many rules at a time can turn people off.
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Pawel Garycki
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My opinion:
- play the first game without expansions to just learn the rules
- add LOME first and play the second game with it, trying to explore all the new minions
- add Council of Rivendell alternate start and explore its posibilities
- add WOME and try to explore all factions; at this stage add the Treebeard since you will regret adding it prior to WOME
- have several plays with both WOME and LOME, but now focus on mastering WOME, trying to make the use of each of WOME's faction card
- add Tidings not Burdens and play them for fun
- play Tidings not Burdens promo with the variant rules presented in its variants sections

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David Williams
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I would not rush to include the expansions.

I'd advise roughly the same approach Pawel suggested above, though I personally haven't yet felt any inclination to experiment with the Council of Rivendell variant, and I don't really consider the Tidings Not Burdens to be worth playing (assuming you have those cards).

Pawel's suggested path does mean you will explore everything in the game, but personally I'd say that's really not necessary since there's plenty of replay value even if you skip the steps which don't appeal.

At the very least I'd let your friend play at least once without expansions and see how they get on. If they thoroughly grasp all the rules and are happy to learn more in order to expand the theme and add some of the iconic characters, add LoME but not the variant Companions except Gandalf (so you can try his cool new die).

WoME is a bit of a beast, in my opinion. Don't get me wrong; I really like what it adds but it does come at a cost. It adds a lot more in terms of both rules and strategic complexity. I'd suggest to only add it when you're comfortable with LoME and feel a definite need to add yet another layer of theme on top.

In summary - start again with the base game as a refresher for you and introduction of core mechanics for your friend. Then play it by ear depending how smoothly that first game goes, by adding the different elements Pawel suggests but don't feel obliged to try them all if they don't appeal.
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Stephen Meyers
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Do you need to have LOME in order to play WOME??

Or can you just add WOME?

Or is it worthwhile with just WOME??







.



 
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Patrick
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Constantinople wrote:


Do you need to have LOME in order to play WOME??

Or can you just add WOME?

Or is it worthwhile with just WOME??


No
Yes
Yes, but at the cost Orion3T described pretty good.

@Topic I'd advise also to play the base Game 3 times at least if within a short Time Frame. If it is spread out maybe even 5. That's when i see most people i've played with are comfortable with the Rules. Then i would add LoME with a lot of cool what-ifs. And if you are ready to step up the complexity Ladder even more add WoME.
 
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David Williams
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Constantinople wrote:
Do you need to have LOME in order to play WOME??

Or can you just add WOME?

Or is it worthwhile with just WOME??


1. No.

2. Yes.

3. I have never tried it. While I think LoME adds plenty of good theme and options with less potential for rules and/or options overload, I'm sure just WoME would also work fine; it will add both theme and options but of a different kind. If you are only going to add one expansion and either prefer the look of WoME, or don't have LoME, then I'm sure WoME is worth adding once you have played at least a few games without expansions.

Put another way - I'd generally recommend LoME first. But if you prefer the look/idea/theme/options WoME presents then there's not much in it and I'd suggest you go for it with just WoME.
 
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Gustavo Sanchez
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Thanks everyone. I will definitely play at least one base game first and see how it goes.

On another question, I heard there's another expansion coming out. Does anyone know what that one is supposed to contain/change in the game?
 
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Pawel Garycki
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nexbot wrote:
Thanks everyone. I will definitely play at least one base game first and see how it goes.

On another question, I heard there's another expansion coming out. Does anyone know what that one is supposed to contain/change in the game?


It will contain Siege Engines, a mechanic known from the expansion to the 1st edition of WOTR. Siege Engines will have uses in well... sieges. I believe they will expand the original siege engine concept from the 1st edition expansion because it used to be very simplistic.
Nothing more is known about this planned expansion. There is some ongoing speculation fed by the fact that siege engines as already known from the 1st edition expansion are more of a mini-expansion due to a minimal content. Some speculate that FP generic leaders could be customized. Some speculate that there might be additional decks and/or sige engine dice, as it was the case with WOME (which themselves were the major rework of the 1st edition expansion's factions).
According to Ares 3 expansions were planned for WOTR, so Siege Engines will be the final one.
Please note that the Middle Earth environment (already enriched by Battle fo the Five Armies) will see more games loosly related to WOTR, e.g. the newly designed "Hunt for the Ring" which links to WOTR with special rules, forming a two game chain. There is some chance that other material will be published as well.
With the bar set high by LOME and WOME, Siege Engines, being the final expansion, should be designed with care and I hope it will.
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Gustavo Sanchez
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improove wrote:
nexbot wrote:
Thanks everyone. I will definitely play at least one base game first and see how it goes.

On another question, I heard there's another expansion coming out. Does anyone know what that one is supposed to contain/change in the game?


It will contain Siege Engines, a mechanic known from the expansion to the 1st edition of WOTR. Siege Engines will have uses in well... sieges. I believe they will expand the original siege engine concept from the 1st edition expansion because it used to be very simplistic.
Nothing more is known about this planned expansion. There is some ongoing speculation fed by the fact that siege engines as already known from the 1st edition expansion are more of a mini-expansion due to a minimal content. Some speculate that FP generic leaders could be customized. Some speculate that there might be additional decks and/or sige engine dice, as it was the case with WOME (which themselves were the major rework of the 1st edition expansion's factions).
According to Ares 3 expansions were planned for WOTR, so Siege Engines will be the final one.
Please note that the Middle Earth environment (already enriched by Battle fo the Five Armies) will see more games loosly related to WOTR, e.g. the newly designed "Hunt for the Ring" which links to WOTR with special rules, forming a two game chain. There is some chance that other material will be published as well.
With the bar set high by LOME and WOME, Siege Engines, being the final expansion, should be designed with care and I hope it will.


That sounds awesome! A couple more questions:

Do you think the expansions add to the playtime significantly?

Have they mentioned any expected completion date for the Siege expansion?

You mean the Hunt for the Ring game directly connects to WotR? Like it's almost an expansion in itself?

That sounds pretty cool...or gimmicky!
 
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Paul Paella
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nexbot wrote:
Thanks everyone. I will definitely play at least one base game first and see how it goes.

On another question, I heard there's another expansion coming out. Does anyone know what that one is supposed to contain/change in the game?


I suggest playing multiple games of base before introducing any expansion. I can assure you that you will make many rules mistakes the first game and will have to play a few times before you play the base game correctly. The hunt alone is almost impossible to play correctly on your first play through.

I poured over the rules numerous times before my first game, read every rules forum post and player aid, and I'm still pretty sure we screwed up multiple rules our first play or 3.
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Jeff K
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I know this may sound crazy, but you might find that you actually prefer playing the base game without expansion.

I have been playing this game for over 10 years, and I almost never play with expansions. The base game is extremely good as is. It is extremely tightly balanced. Adding expansions seriously threatens to upset that balance, unless both players are expert and really know what they are doing and the implications of every action or choice in the game.

I can certainly see why folks use LoME to mix it up a bit. It is a fabulous work. But if you have not exhausted the possibilities of the base game, which takes an extremely long time to do, I would personally suggest you skip the expansions for now.
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Rob McArthur
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Xookliba wrote:

I can certainly see why folks use LoME to mix it up a bit. It is a fabulous work. But if you have not exhausted the possibilities of the base game, which takes an extremely long time to do, I would personally suggest you skip the expansions for now.


I'm the same. I've played the game a dozen times and still don't feel like I've mined the depths of choices in the base game. LOME looks really cool - but it just gives more even more choices to things I haven't exhausted yet.
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Pawel Garycki
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nexbot wrote:

Do you think the expansions add to the playtime significantly?

WOME adds a noticable playtine. LOME adds a marginal playtime.
nexbot wrote:

Have they mentioned any expected completion date for the Siege expansion?

As far as I know, no.
nexbot wrote:

You mean the Hunt for the Ring game directly connects to WotR? Like it's almost an expansion in itself?

Yes, it is sort of an expansion. But "Hunt" plays way differently than WOTR. It is a hidden movement game, not military operations. Hunt covers the journey from Shire to Rivendell in two subsequent scenarios (Shire->Bree, Bree->Rivendell), adding 1.5h playtime each. The outcome of the Hunt game affects a bit WOTR - players have 0-2 additional one-off actions in the WOTR game depending on the Hunt outcome. (Sadly Battle of the Five Armies does not links directly to the saga, but many say it is because the time separation of events is substantial.)
nexbot wrote:

That sounds pretty cool...or gimmicky!

I've heard rumors Ares is not done with Tolkien with Hunt and Siege. There may be additional games.
But now you need to make a choice. Most advisors suggest to play the base game sufficient amount of times becore jumping in the expansions. They might be right... Just to tell you: my then-8-years-old son jumped right into the base game + LOME and we never regret that decision. We have even put the game into shelf for half a year just to wait for WOME - to enjoy the complexity. But we love complexity, we often play games like High Frontier, Leaving Earth, Through the Ages. But your gaming group might be scared if they jump right into all expansions in a short time - unless they also love hyper complex games.
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Gustavo Sanchez
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So I just played today with my friend and it turns out it was fantastic idea not to include the expansions, we both had a great time, but we made numerous rules mistakes as we played. We're both looking forward to a rematch!
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David Williams
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nexbot wrote:
So I just played today with my friend and it turns out it was fantastic idea not to include the expansions, we both had a great time, but we made numerous rules mistakes as we played. We're both looking forward to a rematch!


Yep! There's loads of replay value without the expansions and there's no need to rush them into the game. Play the base game a few times until you're comfortable with the rules and fairly sure you are playing everything right.

Then, if you're hungry for more of the iconic characters, add LoME. Or WoME if you have a soft spot for Ents, Eagles, Spiders etc.
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Jason Dexter
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Orion3T wrote:
nexbot wrote:
So I just played today with my friend and it turns out it was fantastic idea not to include the expansions, we both had a great time, but we made numerous rules mistakes as we played. We're both looking forward to a rematch!


Yep! There's loads of replay value without the expansions and there's no need to rush them into the game. Play the base game a few times until you're comfortable with the rules and fairly sure you are playing everything right.

Then, if you're hungry for more of the iconic characters, add LoME. Or WoME if you have a soft spot for Ents, Eagles, Spiders etc.


I only know one person who has a soft spot for spiders and he has about 25 of them.
 
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Pawel Garycki
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One thing to have in mind. When designing LOME there was a series of articles about it. In some of them Ares described what they wanted to achieve with the first expansion. Apart from adding new stuff then wanted to rebalance some gameplay mechanics of the base game.
- they wanted to avoid Shadow Player to immediately rush for the Witch King by introducing lesser minions and a Witch King alternative
- they wanted to avoid Free People player to immediately rush for Gandalf the White by making the alternate Gandalf the Grey redesigned and by introducing lesser Dice Keepers (Elrond, Galadriel)
This increased the amount of strategies available.

On the other hand there were no articles about what WOME is going to fix. According to the content of this expansion, Eriador location became more interesting by addition of The Western Way card and by Corsair able to reach Grey Haven. Later, the Fellowship aspect of the game has been made more interesting by adding more Fellowship cards (e.g. an event for Merry&Pippin) and by the aid of Eagles and a threat of Spiders. They also rebalanced (nerfed) the promotional Treebeard. So WOME did not fix errors, it just introduced more strategies.
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