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Subject: Move engine backwards to a turnout space rss

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zerg rush
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Hello GWT players!

After playing 10 or so games, we – a pretty disputatious group whistle – have an argument about moving the train backwards.

Using the bottommost auxiliary action to discard cards, my opponent stopped the engine at a turnout space:
- blocking it hereby,
- not upgrading the station master
- and paying one less coin for next delivery as opposed to staying on the railroad.

This seems sooo unfair to me. shake Moving the train backwards should be a penalty for the player discarding the card, but turned out to be the less costly option and hinder the other players. Is this intended?
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Marlene Thornstrom
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whataboard wrote:
- and paying one less coin for next delivery as opposed to staying on the railroad.


Explain this? Moving backwards should never save you money on deliveries. Other than that, it's a valid blocking move.
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zerg rush
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In this image the blue player can deliver to Colorado Springs for one coin, but would pay two coins, if moved to field 4.
 
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Des Lee
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Tikatoy wrote:
whataboard wrote:
- and paying one less coin for next delivery as opposed to staying on the railroad.


Explain this? Moving backwards should never save you money on deliveries. Other than that, it's a valid blocking move.


Actually it does! And it's a very clever blocking move.

The wording is that you count the crosses between the nose of your train and the destination. As the turnout is directly below a cross, that cross is not counted, whereas if you stayed on the track, say going back from 5 to 4, you will have to count that cross. The example in the rulebook has this exact example!
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zerg rush
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cry Thank you, Des and Marlene!
 
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Huzonfirst
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losfp wrote:
The wording is that you count the crosses between the nose of your train and the destination. As the turnout is directly below a cross, that cross is not counted, whereas if you stayed on the track, say going back from 5 to 4, you will have to count that cross. The example in the rulebook has this exact example!

I'll have to check the rulebook, but I'm almost certain that you never have to pay to make deliveries to cities that are behind your train's position. So you don't save money by moving backwards. Other than that, it's a perfectly legal move.
 
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Des Lee
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Larry Levy wrote:
losfp wrote:
The wording is that you count the crosses between the nose of your train and the destination. As the turnout is directly below a cross, that cross is not counted, whereas if you stayed on the track, say going back from 5 to 4, you will have to count that cross. The example in the rulebook has this exact example!

I'll have to check the rulebook, but I'm almost certain that you never have to pay to make deliveries to cities that are behind your train's position. So you don't save money by moving backwards. Other than that, it's a perfectly legal move.


If you deliver to a city behind the train, it's free yes. But being on the turnout saves you a coin compared to being on the main line, if you are delivering forward of your train. Let's say the train is on space 5. You go backwards due to the card trashing auxiliary action. You can either go backwards to space 4 or down into the turnout. Let's say you then deliver to Albuquerque. If you had gone to space 4, you would need to pay 4 coins. If you went into the turnout, you would have to pay only 3 coins. That is literally the example given in the book.

TO BE CLEAR: The act of moving backwards in and of itself does NOT save you a coin. The decision to use that backwards move to move into a turnout DOES save you a coin.
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Marlene Thornstrom
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Ahh, I read that as moving into a turnout vs not moving the train at all, which seemed confusing.
 
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Ted Marshall
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that when moving into a turnout, you must pay the cost and drop a disc. Only taking the station master is optional.

So he would also have had to pay the turnout cost.


I am wrong. Never mind.
 
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Jay M
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TedMarshall wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that when moving into a turnout, you must pay the cost and drop a disc. Only taking the station master is optional.

So he would also have had to pay the turnout cost.


You don't have to pay the cost or drop a disc. You can just sit there. You may not sit there and then later drop a disc.

So yes, the player can sit there, do nothing for the whole game, and block the turnout. The OP seems to think this is not intended or somehow unfair, but it would not be a good thing to do to win the game (block one turnout for a long period of time).

If he/she times it well, she denies you the turnout at a time when you wanted. THat's all. Not really helping themselves to keep their train there the whole game.
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Des Lee
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Not so. From the rulebook:

Quote:
If you stop the movement of your engine on a turnout space of a train station, you must immediately decide whether or not you want to upgrade that train station.
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Jay M
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losfp wrote:
Not so. From the rulebook:

Quote:
If you stop the movement of your engine on a turnout space of a train station, you must immediately decide whether or not you want to upgrade that train station.


You can "decide" the answer is no. You do not have to do it. You just can't do it later if you decline it when you first pull in.
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Jeff Binning
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The train movement can become its own micro game as people maneuver for position around the stations.
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Jay M
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Colorado_Jeff wrote:
The train movement can become its own micro game as people maneuver for position around the stations.


Indeed -- the "leapfrog" mechanic in a four player game can seriously bend the curve depending on when you think your opponent will move, when you decide to move, etc.
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alan beaumont
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whataboard wrote:
This seems sooo unfair to me. shake
Now you know why the guys on the box look like that.
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Graham Charlton
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I tend to try to end the game with my engine still in the shed.
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alan beaumont
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Ooh behave
RandomGraham wrote:
I tend to try to end the game with my engine still in the shed.
Let's hope that's not a euphemism. whistle
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John Anderson
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I've always viewed blocking the turnouts as a very valid strategy, even if you have no interest in the station, or even if it doesn't save you a coin. If you want the station, get there first!
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Ryan Bull
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misteralan wrote:
RandomGraham wrote:
I tend to try to end the game with my engine still in the shed.
Let's hope that's not a euphemism. whistle


bluetrain
 
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