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Subject: Question about Automa setup in Game 5 and beyond rss

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Stewart Chao
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
For setting up sky islands for Automa, when placing Sky Island tiles, should the tiles be preferentially placed on hexes without a building? Or would empty hexes just count as a 0 value building when determining the placement of the Sky Island tile?
 
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Israel Waldrom
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
The Automa always places sky islands on top of buildings, and leaves empty spots available for buildings.

While this is not explicitly stated, setup rule 5 for Automa sky islands says to place them as you would workers, but ignoring basic resource buildings - that process of course ignores the empty plots.

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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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mogust wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The Automa always places sky islands on top of buildings, and leaves empty spots available for buildings.

While this is not explicitly stated, setup rule 5 for Automa sky islands says to place them as you would workers, but ignoring basic resource buildings - that process of course ignores the empty plots.



Jumping in to give official confirmation: Israel is (as always) right.
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Israel Waldrom
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mortenmdk wrote:
mogust wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The Automa always places sky islands on top of buildings, and leaves empty spots available for buildings.

While this is not explicitly stated, setup rule 5 for Automa sky islands says to place them as you would workers, but ignoring basic resource buildings - that process of course ignores the empty plots.



Jumping in to give official confirmation: Israel is (as always) right.


I thought it was The Rev who was always right ^^
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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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mogust wrote:
mortenmdk wrote:
mogust wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The Automa always places sky islands on top of buildings, and leaves empty spots available for buildings.

While this is not explicitly stated, setup rule 5 for Automa sky islands says to place them as you would workers, but ignoring basic resource buildings - that process of course ignores the empty plots.



Jumping in to give official confirmation: Israel is (as always) right.


I thought it was The Rev who was always right ^^




He's mainly handling Scythe .

We could call you The Rev of Charterstone .
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Stewart Chao
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Thanks for the answers. FYI, I have a game where 1 automa only built basic plus 1 building by game 5. I guess that charter will have limited buildings for a while.
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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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stuchao wrote:
Thanks for the answers. FYI, I have a game where 1 automa only built basic plus 1 building by game 5. I guess that charter will have limited buildings for a while.


Wow! .
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David Studley
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mortenmdk wrote:
mogust wrote:

I thought it was The Rev who was always right ^^




He's mainly handling Scythe .

We could call you The Rev of Charterstone .


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Mike Pelletier
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Hopefully Morten and David are still reading this thread...

I just completed game 4 and I'm a bit confused about the new feature addressed above

Spoiler (click to reveal)
do the automa players get all four sky islands and I pick two before each game like a real player, or do the automa players just get two sky islands and use the same two every game?


Thanks in advance for your help
 
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Israel Waldrom
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Pelly54 wrote:
Hopefully Morten and David are still reading this thread...

I just completed game 4 and I'm a bit confused about the new feature addressed above

Spoiler (click to reveal)
do the automa players get all four sky islands and I pick two before each game like a real player, or do the automa players just get two sky islands and use the same two every game?


Thanks in advance for your help


Spoiler (click to reveal)
the automa gets 4 sky islands, and chooses two each game. Priority is given to empty sky islands, otherwise it chooses randomly. When the islands are unlocked, automa setup rule 5 is also unlocked, which explains this.
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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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Pelly54 wrote:
Hopefully Morten and David are still reading this thread...

I just completed game 4 and I'm a bit confused about the new feature addressed above

Spoiler (click to reveal)
do the automa players get all four sky islands and I pick two before each game like a real player, or do the automa players just get two sky islands and use the same two every game?


Thanks in advance for your help


We're still here , Christmas is slowing us down, though. Personally I'm 300 posts behind in my BGG subscription feed, so my response time will be highly variable, but I'll get there eventually .

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I'm guessing that you missed unlocking card 159, which has the rules for handling Sky Islands for the Automa.

1) The Automa gets 4 sky islands like humans do.
2) It places 2 during setup like humans do.
3) If it has empty sky islands it places those during setup.
4) If doesn't have enough empty sky islands it'll draw 1 or 2 random sky islands instead (depending on whether it has 1 or 0 empty ones.
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Mike Pelletier
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mortenmdk wrote:
Pelly54 wrote:
Hopefully Morten and David are still reading this thread...

I just completed game 4 and I'm a bit confused about the new feature addressed above

Spoiler (click to reveal)
do the automa players get all four sky islands and I pick two before each game like a real player, or do the automa players just get two sky islands and use the same two every game?


Thanks in advance for your help


We're still here , Christmas is slowing us down, though. Personally I'm 300 posts behind in my BGG subscription feed, so my response time will be highly variable, but I'll get there eventually .

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I'm guessing that you missed unlocking card 159, which has the rules for handling Sky Islands for the Automa.

1) The Automa gets 4 sky islands like humans do.
2) It places 2 during setup like humans do.
3) If it has empty sky islands it places those during setup.
4) If doesn't have enough empty sky islands it'll draw 1 or 2 random sky islands instead (depending on whether it has 1 or 0 empty ones.


Thanks to both of you. Morten, in answer to your question, I didn't miss that card, I just didn't quite understand it on the first read. Thanks for the clarification.
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Stewart Chao
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Hi Mike,

You might have had a similar situation to me, where one automa build a bunch of buildings and the other didnt.

Following in spoilers about game ending balance.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
The automa behaviour effectively punished automa with fewer buildings.
It was slow to get that automa to get up to 6 build basic buildings. And the automa didnt place as many minions and therefore got fewer turns between resets (collecting all works).

It was interesting because I could witness earlier game "decisions" by automa affecting its long term results.

Morten, was balanced tested if automa preferentially picking empty sky tiles onto empty land tiles? Since I believe that is want a human would do.


BTW, I love the automa is in Scythe and Hostage Negotiator. And it was a reason why I picked up charterstone.
 
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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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stuchao wrote:
Morten, was balanced tested if automa preferentially picking empty sky tiles onto empty land tiles? Since I believe that is want a human would do.[/o]


To be honest, I don't remember.

I agree with the point you're making, but I'm willing to trade a risk of an Automa falling a bit behind (it only falls behind if there's more than one Automa in the game) for having a more interesting board after the campaign.

stuchao wrote:
BTW, I love the automa is in Scythe and Hostage Negotiator. And it was a reason why I picked up charterstone.


Thanks, that's lighting up the early morning of my first workday of the year where it's still close to pitch black outside.

Well, I'm actually not complaining about the dark. I like sitting here by my big window watching the world wake up as I work .
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Scott Russell
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mortenmdk wrote:
stuchao wrote:
Thanks for the answers. FYI, I have a game where 1 automa only built basic plus 1 building by game 5. I guess that charter will have limited buildings for a while.


Wow! .
Spoiler (click to reveal)


So in this case, only one sky island is placed (on the non-basic one)?
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David Studley
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qzhdad wrote:
So in this case, only one sky island is placed (on the non-basic one)?[/o]

That is correct. We'd rather the Automa fill up the board than the tiles.
It's fairly rare, but this situation can happen if the players unlock crates very quickly, filling the advancement deck with a lot of content that *isn't* unconstructed buildings. Ultimately, the Automas will find some buildings and get the Zeppelin moving again.
 
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David Studley
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mortenmdk wrote:
stuchao wrote:
Morten, was balanced tested if automa preferentially picking empty sky tiles onto empty land tiles? Since I believe that is want a human would do.[/o]

I agree with the point you're making, but I'm willing to trade a risk of an Automa falling a bit behind (it only falls behind if there's more than one Automa in the game) for having a more interesting board after the campaign.

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