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Subject: Our houserules: endgame and shopping rss

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Sven DJ
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At our table the experience with Fallout has been largely positive with some (by now well known) drawbacks:

- Game ends too sudden if a player gets their hands on 2 identical faction agenda cards (Freedom or Security).
- The shop doesn't cycle quickly enough, making it difficult for everyone to obtain weapons and armor.
- It's annoying to have other players finish quests you spent a lot of time on and gain the rewards.

We handle the first two with the following houserules. We tried to think of solutions that are clean, easy to remember and adhere as close to the core rules as possible.

- If you have duplicate agenda cards, the duplicates only add one influence to your total.

This houserule has been tested three times now (Commonwealth, Capital Wasteland and the Pit scenarios). It increased the game's duration about 30-60 minutes. Each game ended because the main quest line was finished, which forced an end due to one faction gaining the upper hand. Each time however, a player won the game because they had the faction agenda and 2-3 more agenda's that raised their point total high enough.
Overall, we think this is a positive change if you don't mind 2-3 hour games.

EDIT: we added a small additional houserule:

- The Puppet Master and People Person agenda cards have a 2+ on the bottom left. A Security and a Freedom card with a 2+ have a 4 instead.

See my post below for more on this houserule.

- When you shop, you add asset cards equal to the level of the settlement.

This increases not only the number of available items but also cycles the shop faster. We haven't tested this variant yet, but hopefully it solves our main problem, the shortage of weapons and armor, and the drug overload in the shop.

We haven't thought of a good solution to the third problem yet.

Feedback on our houserules and possible suggestions to the quest problem are appreciated!
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Chris J Davis
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svendj wrote:


- When you shop, you add asset cards equal to the level of the settlement.

This increases not only the number of available items but also cycles the shop faster. We haven't tested this variant yet, but hopefully it solves our main problem, the shortage of weapons and armor, and the drug overload in the shop.


Ooo, I quite like that.
 
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Toby Knotts
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If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race?
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svendj wrote:
When you shop, you add asset cards equal to the level of the settlement.


Nice, I like this one a lot.
 
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CJ Ren
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svendj wrote:
At our table the experience with Fallout has been largely positive with some (by now well known) drawbacks:

- Game ends too sudden if a player gets their hands on 2 identical faction agenda cards (Freedom or Security).
- The shop doesn't cycle quickly enough, making it difficult for everyone to obtain weapons and armor.
- It's annoying to have other players finish quests you spent a lot of time on and gain the rewards.

We handle the first two with the following houserules. We tried to think of solutions that are clean, easy to remember and adhere as close to the core rules as possible.

- If you have duplicate agenda cards, the duplicates only add one influence to your total.

This houserule has been tested a couple of times now (Commonwealth and Capital Wasteland scenarios). It increased the game's duration about 30-60 minutes. The games ended because the main quest line was finished, which forced an end due to one faction gaining the upper hand. Both times however, a player won the game because they had the faction agenda and 2-3 more agenda's that raised their point total high enough.
Overall, we think this is a positive change.

- When you shop, you add asset cards equal to the level of the settlement.

This increases not only the number of available items but also cycles the shop faster. We haven't tested this variant yet, but hopefully it solves our main problem, the shortage of weapons and armor, and the drug overload in the shop.

We haven't thought of a good solution to the third problem yet.

Feedback on our houserules and possible suggestions to the quest problem are appreciated!


Nice solves....the other thing isn't a problem.

It is not your quest
 
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Sven DJ
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svendj wrote:
- When you shop, you add asset cards equal to the level of the settlement.

We have tested this houserule now and everyone agrees it's great. One situation that arose was that we needed robot companions for a certain quest, but no robot companions were showing. Turns out the robot companions were deep in the Caps deck.

If we'd played by the original rules we never would've gotten to them and the quest would've been moot. Instead we spent a couple of actions at a level 3 settlement to shop. During the third shopping action the robots showed up, letting us progress the quest.

We also instituted a third houserule, again related to agenda cards:

- The Puppet Master and People Person agenda cards have a 2+ on the bottom left. A Security and a Freedom card with a 2+ have a 4 instead.

Since our first houserule only lets duplicate agenda cards score a single point of influence, you often get stuck with multiple useless agenda's. This houserule diversifies the win conditions, making the game more interesting and fun.
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Chris J Davis
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svendj wrote:
svendj wrote:
- When you shop, you add asset cards equal to the level of the settlement.


We also instituted a third houserule, again related to agenda cards:

- The Puppet Master and People Person agenda cards have a 2+ on the bottom left. A Security and a Freedom card with a 2+ have a 4 instead.

Since our first houserule only lets duplicate agenda cards score a single point of influence, you often get stuck with multiple useless agenda's. This houserule diversifies the win conditions, making the game more interesting and fun.


After our most recent game, we also came up with a similar idea. Basically, always include all non-faction agendas and only pay attention to the player numbers for the faction agendas.
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Wade Schwendemann
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bleached_lizard wrote:
svendj wrote:
svendj wrote:
- When you shop, you add asset cards equal to the level of the settlement.


We also instituted a third houserule, again related to agenda cards:

- The Puppet Master and People Person agenda cards have a 2+ on the bottom left. A Security and a Freedom card with a 2+ have a 4 instead.

Since our first houserule only lets duplicate agenda cards score a single point of influence, you often get stuck with multiple useless agenda's. This houserule diversifies the win conditions, making the game more interesting and fun.


After our most recent game, we also came up with a similar idea. Basically, always include all non-faction agendas and only pay attention to the player numbers for the faction agendas.


Unless playing with max players, you could always replace one with the other.
Also, one other idea is to start with declared loyalties and a non faction agenda. Shortens the game some, and creates player conflict. Works great for 2 player only of course.
 
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Keith Reeves
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- Game ends too sudden if a player gets their hands on 2 identical faction agenda cards (Freedom or Security).

I agree with your suggestions. I will incorporate them into my play.

- The shop doesn't cycle quickly enough, making it difficult for everyone to obtain weapons and armor.

My previously posted suggestion:
The shop is created each time a player 'shops'. Either landing on a settlement tile, or complete a shop action via a quest reward.
The number of cards drawn and placed in the shop is equal to the size of the settlement (4 plus the size of the settlement is a good idea though)

- It's annoying to have other players finish quests you spent a lot of time on and gain the rewards.

Cutthroat competition is part of the game. I wouldn't change this at all.
 
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We changed our Fallout game into a complete Co-operation game. That is, with 3 players our end objective was to get the minimum limit of influence on Agenda cards for all of us.
This created alot of debating on who would do what and what story line we wanted to go for. We had a great time, enjoying the Fallout story (which I think is great in many parts) and it left all of us feeling we were part in the story, progressing both in levels and doing fun encounters.

So why did I change this rule?
First of all - Trade while Camping. I just don't see the point at all in trading with other players when Camping if we all compete to win the game individually. Why should I give an Agenda card or Item to my opponents? Doens't make sense. Why help them level with the magazines?

Second - of the previous three rounds I tried with competition, usually one person went about the board game, doing most of the story, choosing the direction for endgame for himself, and in the end, finishing the game with a good majority of influence points. The rest of us just had the option to see it happen and suffered while we encountered mobs, missed out on good deals in the shop etc. Maybe I and my other friend player just had a LOAD of unluck in my three previous rounds. But compared to my 4th game of co-operation with my fellow friends the game just turned out to be really good and enjoyable instead of feeling I wasted 3 hours of trolling.

I like the idea of the house rules mentioned above. I'll try it out and see what would happen in a co-operative game. Thanks ^_^/

 
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