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Subject: The Different Maps and Expansions rss

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Andrew Young
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Yo,

Great game. Not sure what the plan will be for additional map development but I would think there could be an almost bottomless potential? Not sure.

My question is thusly:

Some games that release expansions rub people the wrong way- they 'changed' the game or they were superfluous or they added more players, etc. This all could be true. I think the Race for the Galaxy started annoying me with its expansions that seemed, to me, to add unneeded chrome. Whatevs.

In the case of TM, the new maps seem to offer more variations on the core game. Will TM become a 'system' in a sense ala Age of Steam with its myriad maps (both official and otherwise) or add your own example here.

I'm seeing the potential of this game becoming a system with a ton of variable maps to play. I've played the Hellas map and Elysium. Cool stuff. I liked the difference in the terrain (and benefits) as well as the different Awards and Milestones. I thought it interesting that the temp and oxygen and # of ocean tiles all remain the same.

What do you all think?
Andy

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Eric Engelmann
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medievalbanquet wrote:
Yo,

Great game. Not sure what the plan will be for additional map development but I would think there could be an almost bottomless potential? Not sure.

My question is thusly:

Some games that release expansions rub people the wrong way- they 'changed' the game or they were superfluous or they added more players, etc. This all could be true. I think the Race for the Galaxy started annoying me with its expansions that seemed, to me, to add unneeded chrome. Whatevs.

In the case of TM, the new maps seem to offer more variations on the core game. Will TM become a 'system' in a sense ala Age of Steam with its myriad maps (both official and otherwise) or add your own example here.

I'm seeing the potential of this game becoming a system with a ton of variable maps to play. I've played the Hellas map and Elysium. Cool stuff. I liked the difference in the terrain (and benefits) as well as the different Awards and Milestones. I thought it interesting that the temp and oxygen and # of ocean tiles all remain the same.

What do you all think?
Andy



My group loved the new maps, is still largely indifferent towards Venus Next, and is very open to new corporation cards. I think the next area for my "fan expansions" might be an expanded set of awards and milestones, where a set is drawn in each game rather than using the default ones printed on the maps.
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Alan Fluck
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I like the new maps well enough but I'm not sure they change the game enough that I would buy more of them. They're more of a slight variation than anything else as I don't feel the layout of the terrain is that impactful. The Awards/Milestones add the most variation and they could be decoupled from the maps without much difficulty besides specific ones like Polar Explorer.
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Florian Ruckeisen
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The designers set out quite early on to add expansions to the game, but as far as I know, it won't be an open-ended, "bottomless" slew of expansions.

The expansions already available or in the making now (I'm lucky enough to have been invited to beta-test them) go quite different routes, too.

I think that's important, because you can't just pile an ever-increasing number of project cards to the game. Even now, with just Venus Next, there are already people who dislike how the extra cards "dilute" the deck and make it somewhat harder to aim for a specific strategy.

And you have to be very careful about adding all-new mechanisms and "chrome" too. Add one or two cogs too many, and what was a finely tuned machine before suddenly becomes an unwieldy slogfest.
Battlestar Galactica and its multiple big-box expansions comes to mind - not necessarily as a bad example, but as one that rides a fine line in that regard. For my taste, BSG has gotten better with each expansion (though some players prefer the "purity" of the basegame, and even I don't enjoy all the optional additions from all expansions), but there's no denying that with all the extra stuff, BSG can rightfully be called "bloated". So I'm kinda glad that there won't be any more BSG expansions at this point.

Quote:
I'm seeing the potential of this game becoming a system with a ton of variable maps to play.

I'm not sure whether we'll see many new maps on top of H&E, but a "system with a ton of variability" is certainly the intent of TM's expansion plan.
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fluc02 wrote:
I like the new maps well enough but I'm not sure they change the game enough that I would buy more of them. They're more of a slight variation than anything else as I don't feel the layout of the terrain is that impactful. The Awards/Milestones add the most variation and they could be decoupled from the maps without much difficulty besides specific ones like Polar Explorer.

Maybe not as easily as you think. The M&As are designed as a set for each map, to avoid harmful conflicts or overpowered synergies. Just randomly throwing down a bunch of M&As on a new map won't work well. Each set needs to be playtested. I suspect that there will not be more map expansions, but I could be wrong.

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Alan Fluck
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Talmanes wrote:
fluc02 wrote:
I like the new maps well enough but I'm not sure they change the game enough that I would buy more of them. They're more of a slight variation than anything else as I don't feel the layout of the terrain is that impactful. The Awards/Milestones add the most variation and they could be decoupled from the maps without much difficulty besides specific ones like Polar Explorer.

Maybe not as easily as you think. The M&As are designed as a set for each map, to avoid harmful conflicts or overpowered synergies. Just randomly throwing down a bunch of M&As on a new map won't work well. Each set needs to be playtested. I suspect that there will not be more map expansions, but I could be wrong.



I was more referring to switching the full set of M&As from one map to another, not mixing and matching. I can definitely see how using random ones would be problematic, but I'd rather see them release full M&A sets as standalone boards that can be played with the existing maps than more map expansions.
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Andrew Young
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fluc02 wrote:
I like the new maps well enough but I'm not sure they change the game enough that I would buy more of them. They're more of a slight variation than anything else as I don't feel the layout of the terrain is that impactful. The Awards/Milestones add the most variation and they could be decoupled from the maps without much difficulty besides specific ones like Polar Explorer.


I see this point and is 1/2 why I posted. I liked the change in maps as well and their changes to some of the goals of the game, milestones/awards.

I actually liked the additional cost/benefit of the South Pole. Could see a few more hexes like this offering another way to drain player credits.

Not sure if other maps would have more fundamental changes like 3 actions per turn, starting production levels. Perhaps, these ideas would open up too much. But the game is young and if its still relevant in this very frenzied Cult of the New age we may see more ambitious expansions.

Andy
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Andrew Young
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Snapshot wrote:
The designers set out quite early on to add expansions to the game, but as far as I know, it won't be an open-ended, "bottomless" slew of expansions.

The expansions already available or in the making now (I'm lucky enough to have been invited to beta-test them) go quite different routes, too.

I think that's important, because you can't just pile an ever-increasing number of project cards to the game. Even now, with just Venus Next, there are already people who dislike how the extra cards "dilute" the deck and make it somewhat harder to aim for a specific strategy.

And you have to be very careful about adding all-new mechanisms and "chrome" too. Add one or two cogs too many, and what was a finely tuned machine before suddenly becomes an unwieldy slogfest.
Battlestar Galactica and its multiple big-box expansions comes to mind - not necessarily as a bad example, but as one that rides a fine line in that regard. For my taste, BSG has gotten better with each expansion (though some players prefer the "purity" of the basegame, and even I don't enjoy all the optional additions from all expansions), but there's no denying that with all the extra stuff, BSG can rightfully be called "bloated". So I'm kinda glad that there won't be any more BSG expansions at this point.

Quote:
I'm seeing the potential of this game becoming a system with a ton of variable maps to play.

I'm not sure whether we'll see many new maps on top of H&E, but a "system with a ton of variability" is certainly the intent of TM's expansion plan.



Got it, good stuff.

devil
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BD
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I haven't got my hands on the Venus Next expansion to have any experience with it but I can understand the concern about diluting the base game deck. At the very least, cards without a Venus tag could be separated from the VN deck to add something new to the base game even if the Venus map isn't being used.

I think a possible expansion map could be one featuring the north pole which would be interesting.
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Xelto G
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I had a hard time seeing any point to Terraforming Venus, so I skipped it. The map expansion, on the other hand, I got. I suspect future expansions will be like that: a mix of the useful and the not useful.

At least it's not going to be a game where the expansions are a necessary fix to a flaw in the base set.
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Funny you mentioned race for the galaxy, loved the base game, but despite buying every expansion they largely got worse - the new mechanics largely sucked.

So there is both a new map for this game, and a separate expansion (venus?)
 
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Örjan Almén
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dragon0085 wrote:
Funny you mentioned race for the galaxy, loved the base game, but despite buying every expansion they largely got worse - the new mechanics largely sucked.

So there is both a new map for this game, and a separate expansion (venus?)


There is a map pack ”Hellas and Elysium” with a double sided board with two maps having new layouts and having new milestones and awards on each map.

Then there is the newest, just out in stores, ”Venus Next” having a sideboard with a new global parameter, 49 project cards, 5 new corporations (whereof 2 can be used without the expansion) and one additions milestone and award to add to the map (so you can claim 3 out of 6).
 
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