John Van Wagoner
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if they would just release a "card expansion", offering their game's cards as larger cards...cards you can actually read!

I wouldn't even want to guess how many sets of TTR's USA 1910 Days of Wonder has sold! thousands, maybe over a hundred thousand? and they started out selling them for around $10, and now they're getting almost $16 for them...and i don't know a single gamer/friend/relative who owns TTR that hasn't added them as well...(in all honesty, they should have been included from the start)...i wouldn't give TTR as a gift even without also including the 1910 deck of cards...

if they offered these cards, for Mansions of Madness (just an example), they'd sell enough to way more than cover any costs and make quite a profit...if the small cards need to be "on the game board" (like in Talisman), then skip it...but in almost all the other games it would be easy to assign a small cardboard token to be placed "on the board", and have the assigned card next to the board...(or some other easy "work-around")

they have everything they need; the cards have been developed/designed/etc...their only cost would be to have them printed standard size...and then sit back and collect the $$$....
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Bigger cards will take up a lot more real estate on the table. I already have trouble fitting many of their games on my table.

Will FFG also sell me a bigger table... hmmm, yet another way to make money for them.
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Larry L
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Yes, my aging eyes agree!
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Christopher Wionzek
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Expansions make back a FRACTION of the base game cost, which is why they cost more per-component than base games do by far. The "attach rate" of expansions to core games is abysmal.

Selling an expansion that's just "What you already have, but larger" would have such an atrocious attach rate that I have no idea how you could think it would be profitable.
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Dragoonkin wrote:
Expansions make back a FRACTION of the base game cost, which is why they cost more per-component than base games do by far. The "attach rate" of expansions to core games is abysmal.

Selling an expansion that's just "What you already have, but larger" would have such an atrocious attach rate that I have no idea how you could think it would be profitable.


I know nothing of the business side of board gaming but I would imagine a publisher could offer a "print on demand" service for larger cards and maps that would be profitable.

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I can think of many, many games where the fonts on cards could be bigger (Dominion 2nd edition basically admitted this), changing the card layout/design is something that should be first before printing bigger cards.
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Aaron Yoder
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lucky henry wrote:
Dragoonkin wrote:
Expansions make back a FRACTION of the base game cost, which is why they cost more per-component than base games do by far. The "attach rate" of expansions to core games is abysmal.

Selling an expansion that's just "What you already have, but larger" would have such an atrocious attach rate that I have no idea how you could think it would be profitable.


I know nothing of the business side of board gaming...



This is how.
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No One
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I don't look at or buy FFG games anymore because of the hobbit cards. If any game has them, it's very unlikely I'll buy that game.

I can read them just fine. I just hate handling them.

~V
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Sam Cook
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I agree! I want tarot sized Netrunner!
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But they're so adorable!
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Justin V

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I don't mind the small (Euro?) sized cards for games where shuffling is not required, but in a game like Ticket to Ride where not only do you have to shuffle them, but you discard them in sets, they're brutal, I never feel like I can get a legitimate shuffle.

Generally I prefer a standard Bridge or Poker sized playing card for most games, although the Tarot sized cards in Condotierre are fun to use too. Even if there is no real purpose being served for being that size.
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John Van Wagoner
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Dragoonkin wrote:
Expansions make back a FRACTION of the base game cost, which is why they cost more per-component than base games do by far. The "attach rate" of expansions to core games is abysmal.

Selling an expansion that's just "What you already have, but larger" would have such an atrocious attach rate that I have no idea how you could think it would be profitable.
you obv could be correct; i would have thought that with the cards already "ready to be sent to the printer" the cost would pretty much just be printing them...and if so i know they could easily sell enough to make their money back...plus!!

these tiny tiny cards are really annoying...
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Bill Cook
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willythesnitch wrote:
Bigger cards will take up a lot more real estate on the table. I already have trouble fitting many of their games on my table.


I've found it much easier to get more table space than to get smaller hands or younger eyes

However, I think the OP has it wrong calling for expansions. Games should use human-hand-sized cards in the first place. I still think it will make more money for publishers, as there are games I won't buy (e.g. Quest for El Dorado) do to use of hobbit cards.
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Bill Cook
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lithy wrote:
I don't mind the small (Euro?) sized cards for games where shuffling is not required, but in a game like Ticket to Ride where not only do you have to shuffle them, but you discard them in sets, they're brutal,


Ironically, TtR Europe comes with normal sized cards; only the USA edition comes with hobbit cards. I almost believe Days of Wonder keeps the small cards as a sort of anti-American joke.
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I'm 50. Worn glasses since I was 8. No way I would want buggers cards. These games take enough space in both storage and play already.
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Bill Cook
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Geosphere wrote:
I'm 50. Worn glasses since I was 8. No way I would want buggers cards. These games take enough space in both storage and play already.


Can't disagree with you there.
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John_VW wrote:
Dragoonkin wrote:
Expansions make back a FRACTION of the base game cost, which is why they cost more per-component than base games do by far. The "attach rate" of expansions to core games is abysmal.

Selling an expansion that's just "What you already have, but larger" would have such an atrocious attach rate that I have no idea how you could think it would be profitable.
you obv could be correct; i would have thought that with the cards already "ready to be sent to the printer" the cost would pretty much just be printing them...and if so i know they could easily sell enough to make their money back...plus!!

these tiny tiny cards are really annoying...


Well, printing them, after retooling the cutter, getting less per sheet, packaging, shipping and storing the decks, plus opportunity costs. How much would you pay for say, a hundred cards (with shipping)? It's probably a viable pod service product, but extra printing is unlikely to be worth the costs for niche service as of now.
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Christopher Wionzek
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John_VW wrote:
you obv could be correct; i would have thought that with the cards already "ready to be sent to the printer" the cost would pretty much just be printing them...and if so i know they could easily sell enough to make their money back...plus!!

these tiny tiny cards are really annoying...


I mean...what do you think is involved with printing cards?

If you're printing them at a real printing company you have to put your cards into layouts, depending on layout you need multiple setups on the printer (especially when you're talking hundreds of cards here, there's a reason for half-size cards...you get twice as many on a sheet), and then make a set of four single-colour plates per-side of the card, per layout (unless you get lucky and everything uses the same back side), and then print this.

Multiply the printing part by the number of card layouts (again, twice as many as the base game had, because of the double-size cards). Now you have to cut and collate and ship these cards (taking up twice as much space, because the cards are twice as big).

If you do them print-on-demand, FFG doesn't have a setup currently for POD of linen-finish cards, to my knowledge. And doing POD for large swaths of unique cards is awful to do, because you need to print 4 or 5 different setups per-POD-copy and then collate them.

There's a reason for the "P500" GMT does, and that's because it's not worth doing a print run under a minimum size.
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John Van Wagoner
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then they should make the files needed (front/back on each card) for each game avail to purchase (not a give away), and i would have Printerstudio make my own deck(s)...

how much would they charge for a file containing cards i've already purchased? i have no idea, but i'm willing to buy them anyhow...and i have cards (if the hi-res images are provided) made with Printerstudio quite often, and they are not expensive at all...

(i also would have thought a company the size of FFG would have gotten a much better price, per deck, than i could...and i wouldn't have a problem paying what they'd charge me)

AND...if someone has issues with table space, don't buy the cards! use the mini ones that come with the game
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Bill Cook
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A five second google search turned up a company charging the following prices for custom card printing:

Quantity Price/deck
No set-up charge
1-5 $6.60
6-29 $5.50
30-49 $4.15
50-99 $3.85
100-249 $3.25
250-499 $2.45

If they can make money at those prices, I have no doubt FFG can make money selling decks of replacement cards
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John Van Wagoner
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EMBison wrote:
A five second google search turned up a company charging the following prices for custom card printing:

Quantity Price/deck
No set-up charge
1-5 $6.60
6-29 $5.50
30-49 $4.15
50-99 $3.85
100-249 $3.25
250-499 $2.45

If they can make money at those prices, I have no doubt FFG can make money selling decks of replacement cards
i'm telling you Printerstudio has great prices, and really nice cards (just about any size, linen, etc.)...all you need to provide are the best images (card fronts/backs) you can...

i would be willing to pay FFG for those .pdf/.png files and then pay Printerstudio to make them...but it's not simply a case of scanning my purchased cards; images would not be good enough for the effort...
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John Van Wagoner
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and i only posted this idea as an "expansion" because that's what Days of Wonder did (with TTR 1910), and it sold a ton...
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Dear OP,

OK, take the bull by the horns. Pick a game, re-edit, redesign, re-size the cards to suit you, then get bids on the printing for various qtys. See what the costs are for 100 decks, 500, 1000, 5000.

Then make a determination as to whether they could be profitably sold, taking account all other costs.

_________________

Alternate exercise .... card decks are very popular on KS. Design some large print decks a/o games, offer a tiny version and a large version, see how many punters are willing to pay more for size. Call the big ones "deluxe" and other buzz words.

__________________

(Material is not the killer here. It's space and weight. Every cubic mm, every gram counts.)
 
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John Van Wagoner
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aesthetocyst wrote:
Dear OP,

OK, take the bull by the horns. Pick a game, re-edit, redesign, re-size the cards to suit you, then get bids on the printing for various qtys. See what the costs are for 100 decks, 500, 1000, 5000.

Then make a determination as to whether they could be profitably sold, taking account all other costs.

_________________

Alternate exercise .... card decks are very popular on KS. Design some large print decks a/o games, offer a tiny version and a large version, see how many punters are willing to pay more for size. Call the big ones "deluxe" and other buzz words.

__________________

(Material is not the killer here. It's space and weight. Every cubic mm, every gram counts.)


you're completely missing my point: they (FFG, whomever) don't have to include these in their game(s), just (when sending the game off to the printer) also make them avail later...to be purchased, by those of us who'd prefer/like them...

Days of Wonder didn't start printing all their TTR cards larger after seeing how much $$ they made with the 1910 "expansion" (except for the big 10th anniv game, which even they were smart enough to use the larger cards in)...they called it an expansion, and sold it...

and that's all i'm asking...

(so "space, weight, etc." don't factor in...i'd be paying for a set of cards, plus my own s/h...and they could reap their 20%-30% profit while helping out a good customer!)
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