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Subject: Imperial assault 2nd Edition? rss

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Eric Gingras
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How did FFG handle the addition of Descent 2nd edition an Mansions of Madness 2nd edition? Were the first editions obsolete all of a sudden?

I'm asking because Imperial Assault "might" get the 2nd edition treatment. Just want to know what to expect in case it happens.
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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Descent 2nd ed is quite a different beast than Descent. Mansions of Madness 2nd ed can only be played with the app - they go hand in hand.

I don't think it is time for 2nd edition Imperial Assault, because there have been recent new releases (Star Wars: Imperial Assault – Heart of the Empire) and the release of the Legends of the Alliance app. There really isn't anything that requires a second edition.

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Jamie
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If Imperial Assault ever gets a 2nd Edition, which I think is unlikely, it will be a long time from now. Long enough away to, imo, worry about anything.
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Matthew Cordeiro
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My understanding is that those other 2 games were either out of print or hadn't been kept up to date with new expansions. The 2nd edition was essentially a revival of the game.

Imperial Assault is still releasing expansions on a regular basis, and FFG just released an app for the game. I doubt we will see a 2nd edition any time in the near future.
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Michael Tagge
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To actually answer the question asked. MoM is a different game entirely because it requires the app. Descent actually got a conversion kit https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameaccessory/104163/descent-... to reuse the heroes and figures. Of course you would double down on stormies, but perhaps they would be scout troopers. Instead of Nexu you might have an acklay or reek. So a bonus for the owners of 1st edition.

I would imagine if there was a second edition they would do something similar. Although I agree with the other posters that it is VERY unlikely at this time. If anything necessitates a second edition soon it would be a skirmish reboot re balance.
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Joao Rodrigues
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I was "kind" of afraid that the app would come with Imperial Assault 2nd Edition. As it was not the case, I'm with all the others and I don't believe we will get a second edition for Imperial Assault so soon.
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Eric Gingras
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Thanks all! Sounds like it's safe to stock up on the expansions then 😁
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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In a way IA is Descent 3.0 ..

I think that IA is a really great game, although not without its flaws.
If FFG would pull the plug it would be because of decreasing sales and interest. If you look at the number of posts in these forums, it doesn't look all that great, popularity wise. Look at the polls asking how hard the missions are, the number gets lower with each expansion. The poll asking for favourite skirmish maps - 0 votes. The official FFG IA forum has daily activity but not overwhelmingly so.

It's too bad FFG doensn't (appear to) have the full Star Wars licence.
If they would be allowed to release a (stand alone) box containing the heroes of the 3rd trilogy (Rey, Kylo, Finn, Poe Dameron, old Luke) and advertise it would get a MAJOR sales increase, I bet. All the way until the end of episode IX and beyond.
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Nathan Ehlers
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MoM 2.0 is a radically different game from 1.0. You can use the tiles and minis from 1.0, but pretty much the cards and engine of the game get junked. That engine is replicated in the app but functions in a different (and much more dynamic) way.

I would compare that change over to the difference between Twilight Imperium 3rd ed and the original. 3.0 echos what the original was, but is very much it's own game.

I agree with the others that IA 2.0 doesn't sound likely, especially considering the game isn't that old and they've have a stream of expansions already on deck for 2018. I'd also throw in that in the other FFG change over examples, the system had gotten to a point of confusion and bloat that a new edition was able to consolidate all the good ideas and scratch away the bad ones. I don't feel like IA, even with the expansions thrown in, is substantially different today than it was in just the base box. I could probably list on one hand the number of substantive changes to the core system the expansions have made.
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Jack Liu
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The thing that I think will push for a 2.0 is that the current core box campaign is a bit flawed. In that it can snowball hard and is heavily Imperial favored under original rules. Also Allies and mission design hadn’t been refined

This means that new players that come to the game will be turned off from it and may never look into the new and improved missions/campaigns created by the current IA team

It’s not good to have your starting spot for a game be a not so good experience
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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frotes wrote:
The thing that I think will push for a 2.0 is that the current core box campaign is a bit flawed. In that it can snowball hard and is heavily Imperial favored under original rules. Also Allies and mission design hadn’t been refined.

This means that new players that come to the game will be turned off from it and may never look into the new and improved missions/campaigns created by the current IA team.

But that may be solved by making an update kit for the Core Box, while including it in the new prints .. no need to fully re-design the game into a 2.0 version?

Another thing that may improve the game is more randomness in the missions. So you still won't exactly know what's coming if you play it a second time.
And generally I think the game really lacks (campaign) missions. After all, this is D&D light in a SW environment. There should be books and books and more books full of new adventures. A bit like fan-made D&D 5th edition books that keep on getting released. Likewise IA could do with a major update - a box with just campaigns. Using all the enemies and tiles that have been has released thus far. That you can have a "campaign on the death star" where you mainly meet all the types of stormtroopers. Or a Tatooine "Infiltrate the Smugglers nest" campaign with all the scum units. An arena with all the Monsters. And so on.

Skirmish. What is a pity in my opinion (if I had to write a review) is that Skirmish is set up the way it is. That if you want to use 2 elite imperial officers or 3 nexu, you have to buy another core box - just for the extra card or model. Which is kind of ridiculous. This is extremely limiting the player base to very wealthy (and fanatic) people. FFG should really come with a Skirmish box with enough cards to fill the gaps - and a few extra models from the boxes.
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Pasi Ojala
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Teowulff wrote:
It's too bad FFG doensn't (appear to) have the full Star Wars licence.

They do. See Star Wars: Destiny.
Teowulff wrote:
If they would be allowed to release a (stand alone) box containing the heroes of the 3rd trilogy (Rey, Kylo, Finn, Poe Dameron, old Luke) and advertise it would get a MAJOR sales increase, I bet.

I would not bet on that. Also, it would not be Imperial Assault, and there's so much more timeline-appropriate material to use.
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Nathan Ehlers
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If you're more interested in not knowing what's coming and like an rpg feel, give the new IA app a try. They borrowed heavily from Mansions of Madness 2.0. It's neat and feels different than regular IA, though I don't like the AI for imperial actions.

FFG has already drawn on material outside the original 3 movies for SW:IA. They've released Darth Maul and the Imperial Inquisitor (from Ep. 1 and Rebels) respectively. One of the neat things about the way they have designed original material for IA is the game can play out across an expansive timeline. Your pool of heroes could show up on Hoth during Ep. 5 (which is where one expansion does start) or they could show up on Jakku during the final battle for the empire. FFG is being very deliberate in not flooding the market with all the stuff right away. We're not even following the original trilogy anymore. The latest expansion has us engaging in an uprising on Coruscant. I'm not sure when we'll get around to meeting Yoda or Ewoks.
 
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Jack Liu
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Teowulff wrote:
frotes wrote:
The thing that I think will push for a 2.0 is that the current core box campaign is a bit flawed. In that it can snowball hard and is heavily Imperial favored under original rules. Also Allies and mission design hadn’t been refined.

This means that new players that come to the game will be turned off from it and may never look into the new and improved missions/campaigns created by the current IA team.

But that may be solved by making an update kit for the Core Box, while including it in the new prints .. no need to fully re-design the game into a 2.0 version?

Another thing that may improve the game is more randomness in the missions. So you still won't exactly know what's coming if you play it a second time.
And generally I think the game really lacks (campaign) missions. After all, this is D&D light in a SW environment. There should be books and books and more books full of new adventures. A bit like fan-made D&D 5th edition books that keep on getting released. Likewise IA could do with a major update - a box with just campaigns. Using all the enemies and tiles that have been has released thus far. That you can have a "campaign on the death star" where you mainly meet all the types of stormtroopers. Or a Tatooine "Infiltrate the Smugglers nest" campaign with all the scum units. An arena with all the Monsters. And so on.

Skirmish. What is a pity in my opinion (if I had to write a review) is that Skirmish is set up the way it is. That if you want to use 2 elite imperial officers or 3 nexu, you have to buy another core box - just for the extra card or model. Which is kind of ridiculous. This is extremely limiting the player base to very wealthy (and fanatic) people. FFG should really come with a Skirmish box with enough cards to fill the gaps - and a few extra models from the boxes.


I wouldn’t consider IA anything like D&D or roleplaying. The description says it’s a competitive tactical strategy game. It just happens to be set in the Starwars Universe. Players that are looking for a light Star Wars RP game should go for Edge of Rebellion

I actually think the skirmish is very well done and balanced. It fits perfectly for a competitive setting. The issue with module count is one that FFG always does across it’s games, you need extra core boxes to fill in all figures/cards

The campaign mode is also excellent and improves on the descent 1vM model a lot. The only issue is with initial balance because this was a new game when FFG made it. They have done an excellent job in the later expansions

As for an upgrade kit, i would expect them to do the same thing that MM and Descent 2.0 did. New edition + upgrade kit = more $$
 
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Teowulff wrote:


It's too bad FFG doensn't (appear to) have the full Star Wars licence.
If they would be allowed to release a (stand alone) box containing the heroes of the 3rd trilogy (Rey, Kylo, Finn, Poe Dameron, old Luke) and advertise it would get a MAJOR sales increase, I bet. All the way until the end of episode IX and beyond.


People read so much into FFG with all these rumors of a limited license. I'm sure there are limits to their licence but... the new movies are certainly not outside of their scope. Look no further than that X-wing and Destiny heavily delve into the new movies. Every ship in the new movies is present in X-wing, and Kylo has been released in 3 forms in X-wing already and Rey in 2 forms. Poe has been released TWICE in X-wing, once in his own black and orange ship. There's even been a re-release of the Falcon with a square dish. Destiny STARTED with the new movies. So... they have a full licence. They clearly have just not yet put imperial assault into new movie territory. I am sure they will, it's more a question of when than if.
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Jack Liu
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They've also added Hera/Chopper and BT/000 already. Imperial assault will never let you play as the Iconic Heroes, that doesn't make sense in their campaign narrative and restricts their development space. Instead you will see all your favorite heroes and villains as Ally/Villains that get included in side packs

The LotA app addresses the 1vM issue as well as giving a more "RP" experience.

Honestly there is no reason for a 2.0 at this point because everything in the game works and sales are good. I would just like to personally see a 2.0 because I think it will elevate the game even more and addresses some of the early concerns

In the recent Descent 2.0 core box, they have started to include a different starting campaign that was introduced much later
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Eric
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Wyndam22 wrote:
If Imperial Assault ever gets a 2nd Edition, which I think is unlikely, it will be a long time from now. Long enough away to, imo, worry about anything.


Although we sure have been fooled before with "New Editions" of games being announced. Not FFG per se.

IA should be safe from that I hope.
 
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As someone who owns everything I would love to see new campaign guides with a few new map tiles thrown in. Instead of gaining our iconic heroes and villains from the movies as allies in a campaign, let's have new stories with these main characters.

I'd like to see that before even considering the possibilities of a 2.0
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frotes wrote:
(..) everything in the game works and sales are good.

But how do you know sales are good?

If I look at the number of posts on the forums, skirmish tourneys and ratings for the expansions, interest seems to dwindle with the years.

1. Ratings on BGG:
850 votes - Twin Shadows
626 votes - Return to Hoth
339 votes - Bespin Gambit
227 votes - Jabba
64 votes - HoTE

2. I also tried to resurrect a thread from oct 2016 where people could rate skirmish maps. I added the new jabba/HoTE and wave 8-10 maps.
It had 7 votes then and guess how many votes were added? Zero.

3. On the FFG forums:
Star Wars X-Wing - 1100k posts
Star Wars Armada - 300k posts
Star Wars Imperial Assault - 80k posts

This doesn't exactly looks like steady or increasing popularity. To put it mildly. As a matter of fact I find this rather troubling.
If it continues like this, making new expansions won't be profitable anymore and FFG will only release a little low budget stuff to keep people playing.

And as I wrote before: this game deperately needs A LOT of new campaign stuff. IA just isn't primarily a Skirmish game. It needs more adventures for you and your friends. And preferably campaigns with 20 missions, of which you will encounter only 6 or 7 during a playthrough. Branching storylines and 2 possible starting scenarios, for instance. That way you can do the same campaign 4 times and still encounter just a few missions you have previously done. Now release 3 of these campaigns (using existing tiles and bad guys) in a nice hardcover book - and you have a year of new content.

That why my proposal to refresh people's interest by adding the episode VII-IX heroes and start advertizing. Perhaps even as a standalone box.
Because it seems the game is slowly losing the interest of most of the old players but isn't getting a lot of fresh blood.

frotes wrote:
I wouldn’t consider IA anything like D&D or roleplaying. The description says it’s a competitive tactical strategy game. It just happens to be set in the Starwars Universe. Players that are looking for a light Star Wars RP game should go for Edge of Rebellion

Well it depends on how you define RP. I would already consider people identifyting with the character they play and acting "in role" from time to time a mild form of RP.
It not a game where you are the blue pawn and I play the green pawn.
 
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So... expansions that have been out longer have more ratings?

And that should be evidence of less interest in the game?

I don't think that's the way it works. :-)

Sales for this line are good because FFG keep on pushing new expansions for it, keeps developing new products for it and they themselves are still really hyped about it.
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Teowulff wrote:
If I look at the number of posts on the forums, skirmish tourneys and ratings for the expansions.

1. Number of Play by Forum threads on BGG:
- X-Wing - 2 threads, 11 posts
- Armada - 1 thread, 2 posts
- Imperial Assault - 110 threads, 165438 posts

Maybe this isn't a proper comparison either.
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I think the combination of the recent big box expansion release (HOTE) and the new LOTA app are evidence that FFG still thinks IA has a good ways to go and will continue to be profitable. Speaking as a software developer myself, I'm sure creating the app was not an insignificant investment so I would be surprised if they spent the time/money to develop and release it without seeing its potential to increase revenue. Also, regarding releasing new campaigns, I think they plan to do that but instead of selling new campaigns as add-ons or upgrade kits, they will do it through the app.
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Teowulff wrote:

frotes wrote:
I wouldn’t consider IA anything like D&D or roleplaying. The description says it’s a competitive tactical strategy game. It just happens to be set in the Starwars Universe. Players that are looking for a light Star Wars RP game should go for Edge of Rebellion

Well it depends on how you define RP. I would already consider people identifyting with the character they play and acting "in role" from time to time a mild form of RP.
It not a game where you are the blue pawn and I play the green pawn.


I should restate and say that I don't "think" FFG thinks and plans for IA to be a roleplaying style game. Of course players are free to associate with their characters and RP if they choose

But no where on the box or description does it say roleplaying. It does say competitive, strategic and tactical in various places. Balance wise, they seem to be aiming for a semi balance campaign/missions with star wars theme/setting on top

At least that's my opinion on it anyways. FFG has other games better suited for roleplaying environments
 
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machfalcon wrote:
instead of selling new campaigns as add-ons or upgrade kits, they will do it through the app.

Good point. Campaigns need design effort and both in-house and outside playtesting. Selling only paper probably would not make up for the cost of design and printing, while releasing new content through the app would have no material costs and minimal logistics costs.

So, I expect any physical releases to come with plastic.


 
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Teowulff wrote:

And as I wrote before: this game deperately needs A LOT of new campaign stuff. IA just isn't primarily a Skirmish game. It needs more adventures for you and your friends. And preferably campaigns with 20 missions, of which you will encounter only 6 or 7 during a playthrough. Branching storylines and 2 possible starting scenarios, for instance. That way you can do the same campaign 4 times and still encounter just a few missions you have previously done. Now release 3 of these campaigns (using existing tiles and bad guys) in a nice hardcover book - and you have a year of new content.


Have you played either the Hoth or Jabba campaigns? That's how they're designed. I have a group that meets semi regularly and a big campaign plus the small box (which we can knock out in 1 or 2 sessions) lasts us most of the year. At the current production pace, we won't ever go back and replay a campaign to see the scenarios missed. While I'm happy to have new content, I, personally, don't feel like the game lacks for content.

On the popularity note, I'm not sure bgg ratings or votes or whatever is an indication of popularity. Here's another data point to consider: A list of stores hosting regional IA skirmish events in 2017. It's not every town in the USA, but it's also not a handful of shops near the Twin Cities either.

FFG has a history of tapering off production with game systems that aren't doing well or don't fit their portfolio. They won't announce they aren't supporting the game, they'll just stop announcing regular product support for it. As far as I know, IA is still receiving regular support. The app just launched this month and the last wave of stuff dropped in the fall. I'm expecting the next big box expansion to be announced in early Q1 if it hasn't leaked out already.

I guess I feel like this thread is much ado about nothing.
 
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