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$50 says his 'revenge boner' was throbbing when he said it.
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Daniel Kearns
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Congratulations Republicans!!! You did it! Proudaya.

And they cut the legs out of Obamacare too and no one even saw it coming (except for all the people paying attention and pointed this out). Tee hee. Pretty sneaky sis. Great jorb finally nailing a party line majority vote.
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Andre
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Someone should tell him that 'we' in 2018, or even 2020, that will have to come up with a better Obamacare, might be a Democratic majority. Priceless!
 
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Daniel Kearns
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It was such a good idea, we had to totally misrepresent it, otherwise the public would understand.
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Good riddance to an unprecedented government over-reach. The critics are right that repealing the mandate will lead to spiraling insurance premiums, but insurance premiums were already spiraling and the whole system would have failed under its own weight anyway.

The business tax cuts also help America's global competitiveness, as it previously had a rather high corporate tax rate.

Unfortunately, there are many sops to special interest in the bill and it complicates rather than simplifies the tax code. It can hardly qualify as "reform" though it's better than nothing.
 
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Les Marshall
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Kiraboshi wrote:
Good riddance to an unprecedented government over-reach. The critics are right that repealing the mandate will lead to spiraling insurance premiums, but insurance premiums were already spiraling and the whole system would have failed under its own weight anyway.

The business tax cuts also help America's global competitiveness, as it previously had a rather high corporate tax rate.

Unfortunately, there are many sops to special interest in the bill and it complicates rather than simplifies the tax code. It can hardly qualify as "reform" though it's better than nothing.


Don't know where you were before the ACA. Premiums were spiraling back then too. Repealing ACA will simply mean more expense for even less coverage. Thanks Trump.

As to the putative tax rate, that would be more compelling if corporations were actually paying the prevailing tax rate instead of a lower effective tax rate. Now that it will only be 20%, lets see if there is actually more investment in American jobs or just repurchasing shares, paying dividends and expanding manufacturing in still cheap foreign labor markets.
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Kumitedad wrote:
Kiraboshi wrote:
Good riddance to an unprecedented government over-reach. The critics are right that repealing the mandate will lead to spiraling insurance premiums, but insurance premiums were already spiraling and the whole system would have failed under its own weight anyway.

The business tax cuts also help America's global competitiveness, as it previously had a rather high corporate tax rate.

Unfortunately, there are many sops to special interest in the bill and it complicates rather than simplifies the tax code. It can hardly qualify as "reform" though it's better than nothing.


Since there are estimates that at least 10,000 people a year will die needlessly because of this bill we'll be generous and say you are sadly ignorant

https://www.metro.us/news/the-big-stories/gop-tax-bill-kill-...


He was a member of the Obama administration, and his estimate is absurd and baseless. There's no reason any of those people have to lose health insurance, because the subsidies are untouched. The argument is that people who don't want health insurance might be harmed. Clearly they are not, because they didn't want the insurance in the first place.

It also looks at health insurance as if it is a free-floating thing with no trade-offs. What if a person who drops his health insurance buys a safer car instead of driving around an old rattle-trap and this choice saves his life when he doesn't get into an accident? What if he is able to afford to live in a safer neighborhood or uses the money to buy a gym membership and loses weight? What if he uses the money on training, gets ahead rather than pissing it away on uneconomical insurance premiums, then has better insurance than he would have had by the time he does get sick in middle age?
 
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Rulesjd wrote:
Kiraboshi wrote:
Good riddance to an unprecedented government over-reach. The critics are right that repealing the mandate will lead to spiraling insurance premiums, but insurance premiums were already spiraling and the whole system would have failed under its own weight anyway.

The business tax cuts also help America's global competitiveness, as it previously had a rather high corporate tax rate.

Unfortunately, there are many sops to special interest in the bill and it complicates rather than simplifies the tax code. It can hardly qualify as "reform" though it's better than nothing.


Don't know where you were before the ACA. Premiums were spiraling back then too. Repealing ACA will simply mean more expense for even less coverage. Thanks Trump.

As to the putative tax rate, that would be more compelling if corporations were actually paying the prevailing tax rate instead of a lower effective tax rate. Now that it will only be 20%, lets see if there is actually more investment in American jobs or just repurchasing shares, paying dividends and expanding manufacturing in still cheap foreign labor markets.

The ACA definitely is not the only thing wrong with the American healthcare system. The AMA operates as a cartel that drives up the cost of medical care by reducing the supply of doctors. To preempt one objection, nobody is arguing that there shouldn't be standards to practice medicine, but why does that have to mean a government-enforced accreditation monopoly? Don't people on both the left and right agree that monopolies drive up prices? Hospitals are not competitive either, because they usually require government permission to be built in the form of a certificate of need.

Drugs can't be purchased from Canada or Mexico. People can't buy insurance across state lines or from international providers. The FDA is overly risk-averse, because the bureaucrats there, as elsewhere, are primarily concerned with CYA and less concerned with not approving new medications, which is largely invisible to the public. The FDA does not allow non-specific indications e.g. for medicines against aging even though most of the health-care burden is age-related disease. The government crowds out biotech R&D by enticing many of the brightest minds into designing new destructive toys for the Pentagon. The patent system is too protective of "new drugs" that are just slight chemical modifications of existing ones and not much different in their effects. Animal welfare regulations inflate the cost of necessary testing for new drugs. Regulations prevent certain kinds of lab-work from being administered in-office instead. Malpractice liability, while it should exist, is excessive. Huge lawsuit payouts drive up the cost of malpractice insurance and thus the cost of medical care. I could go on even longer. It's a huge laundry-list of problems, and the broken insurance system is not even the most significant one.
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Les Marshall
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Kiraboshi wrote:
Rulesjd wrote:
Kiraboshi wrote:
Good riddance to an unprecedented government over-reach. The critics are right that repealing the mandate will lead to spiraling insurance premiums, but insurance premiums were already spiraling and the whole system would have failed under its own weight anyway.

The business tax cuts also help America's global competitiveness, as it previously had a rather high corporate tax rate.

Unfortunately, there are many sops to special interest in the bill and it complicates rather than simplifies the tax code. It can hardly qualify as "reform" though it's better than nothing.


Don't know where you were before the ACA. Premiums were spiraling back then too. Repealing ACA will simply mean more expense for even less coverage. Thanks Trump.

As to the putative tax rate, that would be more compelling if corporations were actually paying the prevailing tax rate instead of a lower effective tax rate. Now that it will only be 20%, lets see if there is actually more investment in American jobs or just repurchasing shares, paying dividends and expanding manufacturing in still cheap foreign labor markets.

The ACA definitely is not the only thing wrong with the American healthcare system. The AMA operates as a cartel that drives up the cost of medical care by reducing the supply of doctors. To preempt one objection, nobody is arguing that there shouldn't be standards to practice medicine, but why does that have to mean a government-enforced accreditation monopoly? Don't people on both the left and right agree that monopolies drive up prices? Hospitals are not competitive either, because they usually require government permission to be built in the form of a certificate of need.

Drugs can't be purchased from Canada or Mexico. People can't buy insurance across state lines or from international providers. The FDA is overly risk-averse, because the bureaucrats there, as elsewhere, are primarily concerned with CYA and less concerned with not approving new medications, which is largely invisible to the public. The FDA does not allow non-specific indications e.g. for medicines against aging even though most of the health-care burden is age-related disease. The government crowds out biotech R&D by enticing many of the brightest minds into designing new destructive toys for the Pentagon. The patent system is too protective of "new drugs" that are just slight chemical modifications of existing ones and not much different in their effects. Animal welfare regulations inflate the cost of necessary testing for new drugs. Regulations prevent certain kinds of lab-work from being administered in-office instead. Malpractice liability, while it should exist, is excessive. Huge lawsuit payouts drive up the cost of malpractice insurance and thus the cost of medical care. I could go on even longer. It's a huge laundry-list of problems, and the broken insurance system is not even the most significant one.


Dial it back to the 1970's when hospital were run as public institutions and I think you'll find good quality healthcare with far fewer bankruptcies due to medical bills.

What would you replace the AMA with? Who would set the minimum standards for medical competency?

You talk about medical malpractice but do you really have experience with the process? Do you have compelling objective data at your fingertips that indicates most cases are without merit or without actual harm? I've practiced law in the injury field (Workers' Comp) and I can GUARANTEE you that there are both incompetent and dishonest people in the profession. Medical Malpractice is no easy road for a litigation attorney and in California at least, when I practiced, the amount of damages was capped for pain and suffering so the runaway jury theory was fairly bogus.

You're not wrong about the pharmaceutical companies but, what to do about it? On the one hand you seem to want easier hurdles to new drugs even though rushing drugs to market often results in serious harms to consumers. Who is gonna fix the trade issues? The GOP seems in no hurry to correct big Pharma nor does the God Emperor Trump. Profit seems the order of the day and accountability something to be swept under the rug.

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Mac Mcleod
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Rulesjd wrote:
Kiraboshi wrote:
Good riddance to an unprecedented government over-reach. The critics are right that repealing the mandate will lead to spiraling insurance premiums, but insurance premiums were already spiraling and the whole system would have failed under its own weight anyway.

The business tax cuts also help America's global competitiveness, as it previously had a rather high corporate tax rate.

Unfortunately, there are many sops to special interest in the bill and it complicates rather than simplifies the tax code. It can hardly qualify as "reform" though it's better than nothing.


Don't know where you were before the ACA. Premiums were spiraling back then too. Repealing ACA will simply mean more expense for even less coverage. Thanks Trump.

As to the putative tax rate, that would be more compelling if corporations were actually paying the prevailing tax rate instead of a lower effective tax rate. Now that it will only be 20%, lets see if there is actually more investment in American jobs or just repurchasing shares, paying dividends and expanding manufacturing in still cheap foreign labor markets.


It wasn't just spiraling premiums- it was also denial of insurance, loss of insurance on a job change, and denial of insurance even after taking premiums for years back in 2008 as well as rising health care premiums. Many people couldn't get insurance at any price.

They've been able to get insurance for about 10% or less of their income since the ACA was passed. Now, the premiums for many people will be more expensive than their annual income.

As the republicans said, these people will have "access" to health care-- they just won't be able to afford it.

But I agree many americans felt they couldn't afford ACA insurance at current premiums. In some cases, premiums were over 25% of their annual income. In most of those cases, they were in states where the governors had specifically done their best to make the ACA as expensive as possible.

Republicans worked hard and in bad faith to destroy the ACA instead of fixing it. By removing the mandate, premiums will rise steeply and many will fall back to going to emergency rooms for expensive health care of minimal quality creating huge bills which they cannot pay. Those unpaid bills will raise hospital costs requiring the increase in insurance premiums to resume.

Meanwhile.. in 25 other nations the citizens have decent health care for a fraction of the price.

The republican party has done nothing but attack the bottom 2/3 of the country since they gained power. I don't see how they keep it going except that wealthy conservatives feed a load of daily propaganda to many poor conservatives.

Liberals need to get their game together and stop splitting their vote. I won't see the full impact for a decade so maybe it's not too late for me. But one heart attack, appendicitus, etc. and I'm toast. I'm at increased risk for pancreatic cancer too.

Pre ACA, I saw a friend with bone cancer 'slow walked' thru the medical system for the poor. By the time they started her on chemo 9 MONTHS after the diagnosis, she was dying. I think she died about 3 months later and she was in great pain.




And anyway, I'm not going to believe the president's statement that the tax cut will actually kill the ACA resulting in the death of thousands and the loss of insurance coverage for millions unless you can show me a 2027 study proving that it actually happened.
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Walt
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maxo-texas wrote:
Republicans worked hard and in bad faith to destroy the ACA instead of fixing it. By removing the mandate, premiums will rise steeply and many will fall back to going to emergency rooms for expensive health care of minimal quality creating huge bills which they cannot pay. Those unpaid bills will raise hospital costs requiring the increase in insurance premiums to resume.

I just wanted to point out that over-use of ERs and unpaid hospital bills will increase costs for all medical insurance, not just ACA. Medicare, medicaid, and the VA are somewhat insulated, but not completely.
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Robert Stuart
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Kiraboshi wrote:
The AMA operates as a cartel that drives up the cost of medical care by reducing the supply of doctors.

Entirely correct. Our society and our medical schools could produce many more good, well-trained doctors than they do.
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Mac Mcleod
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As we easily did for world war 2.
 
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