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Subject: Replayability: Repeating the same strategy over and over again [no spoilers] rss

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Gerald Rüscher
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So we've played 9 out of 12 games of Chartertstone and I must say that although I still like the game, the last 4-5 rounds have been a minor disappointment regarding the overall development of the game.

We're playing with 4 human players along with 2 bots so all 6 charters are active. 2 of the 4 human players got their hands on some pretty good card combos which favor certain strategies. As a result, each of these two players (one of them is me) plays the same individual strategy over and over again, game for game, scoring a solid 60-70 points per game. Each of us has won 3 games so far.

Well, I like winning but now I find this routine increasingly boring. But I do not see any incentive to change my base strategy and the same is true for my buddy.

So I wonder:
Is this common with Charterstone? Developing a dominant strategy and sticking to this. Or am I expecting too much variability here?
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A Huynh
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Yeah if you have a good combo going then there's very little incentive to change it up, if you have an assistant that gives you bonus for certain actions, it only benefits you to keep pushing that type of action.
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Jamey Stegmaier
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Just make sure you're following the rule that you can only keep 1 card and 1 minion of each type. Like, you can only keep 1 assistant, not 2.

Each of the scenarios the game presents--as well as the objectives and personas--are meant to push players in different directions--but the game gives you the freedom to choose new strategies instead of forcing you to do so.
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Mike
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Sounds to me like your friends are being too nice, and not challenging you.

If everyone is happy to follow their own strategy in their own little corner and let everyone else do the same, I guess that's okay.

But if I were in your game and saw you doing the same strategy every time, I'd be stealing the buildings you need, and actively trying to disrupt your strategy.
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Gerald Rüscher
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inconsiderate wrote:
Sounds to me like your friends are being too nice, and not challenging you.

If everyone is happy to follow their own strategy in their own little corner and let everyone else do the same, I guess that's okay.

But if I were in your game and saw you doing the same strategy every time, I'd be stealing the buildings you need, and actively trying to disrupt your strategy.


Could you please explain what you mean by "stealing the buildings"?
And what do you mean by "disrupting a strategy"? Is something like that really possible in CS? I mean, what can I really do to make someone's life hard? I cannot block actions, I cannot deny them resources (apart from a card from time to time)
 
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Mike
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I can't really answer that question without spoilers so here come the tags, sorry.

If certain cards come up that can drastically change gameplay like certain extremely spoilery cards that I think you know which ones I mean, I will immediately take them using the marketplace or any other spoilery ways of getting them, to make sure no one else can have it.

If you know a player is working towards a certain building, you can take the building that supplies the resources they need. If they need it badly enough to bump you, you just earned a free turn. This is especially effective if (box IV spoiler)
Spoiler (click to reveal)

it's a building in their charter and you know they have to use a minion on it, because you can't place a minion on a claimed building. They will likely have to waste an entire turn pulling back their workers before they can bump you off.


If you need "any resource" for something, make sure you take one that your opponents need.

I mean these are all things you are probably doing anyway just to get points, but there are creative ways to screw with the other players. In my experience, worker-placement games do tend to be pretty competitive.
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(つ✧ω✧)つ /(◕ᆺ◕)\
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inconsiderate wrote:

If you know a player is working towards a certain building, you can take the building that supplies the resources they need. If they need it badly enough to bump you, you just earned a free turn.


is it just me but I have reached a point where I don't want to get bumped, because it would mean that I will be slower to retrieve all my workers which also means slower in redeploying my minions again. I feel being able to deploy the minions and get their benefits is a big advantage?
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Rob
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ehui wrote:
inconsiderate wrote:

If you know a player is working towards a certain building, you can take the building that supplies the resources they need. If they need it badly enough to bump you, you just earned a free turn.


is it just me but I have reached a point where I don't want to get bumped, because it would mean that I will be slower to retrieve all my workers which also means slower in redeploying my minions again. I feel being able to deploy the minions and get their benefits is a big advantage?


You can just take a turn to retrieve whenever you like.
You don't need to have all your workers deployed.
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Gerald Rüscher
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inconsiderate wrote:
f you know a player is working towards a certain building, you can take the building that supplies the resources they need. If they need it badly enough to bump you, you just earned a free turn.


Thanks!

I understand your approach: Player A needs a building X to play his strategy. So I take X, forcing player A to bump me. But this is not really disrupting the other player's strategy but merely utilizing it to gain some speed on my own. This is nice if building X is useful for me as well. But pretty often, X does not really fit into my own strategy which results in a situation where both A and myself lose some speed.

Maybe it'll help to sketch one of the strategies used in our games. I can do that w/o any spoiler tags because it focuses on a simple base building: the Cloud Port:

My buddy has cards which boost the Cloud Port, most importantly one which grants an extra VP each time he uses it. So his strategy is pretty simple: he hoards all kind of resources and then drops all of them in the Cloud Port, scoring 5 VP per Port action. Of course he uses other opportunities as they come along but this is his main, most reliable source for points.

Should all other three players gang up on him, trying to steal as many Cloud Port locations as possible? I guess we could do that but that'll result in a pretty boring and one-sided gaming experience.
 
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Becq
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By 'resources', do you mean resources, coins, and cards? Resources alone can only get you the first row on the Cloud Port grid, and it seems as though it would be easy for the other players to grab one or two of the more efficient slots in that row.

Assuming you meant all three (I think Jamey may have referred to them collectively as 'commodities'), I don't yet know a counterstrategy other than to take the more efficient Cloud Port slots yourself. I'd hope there were alternative strategies by game 9, but haven't played yet, so I have no further suggestions.
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Josh Ward
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If your whole campaign is based on just getting points to win games, you're not constructing buildings, or getting more personas, or doing anything else that gets you end-of-campaign points. Being more spread out may lose games by a little bit, but it will help you win the campaign. Focusing on a single set of actions over and over while others are building and opening things is probably not the best use of time.

I'd be curious to learn how the campaign ends up for you guys!
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Mike
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kredal wrote:
If your whole campaign is based on just getting points to win games, you're not constructing buildings, or getting more personas, or doing anything else that gets you end-of-campaign points. Being more spread out may lose games by a little bit, but it will help you win the campaign. Focusing on a single set of actions over and over while others are building and opening things is probably not the best use of time.

I'd be curious to learn how the campaign ends up for you guys!


Not sure if this was directed at me, but if it was... we are opening boxes and constructing buildings all the time! Most of our points come from doing those things, not doing the little "trade one resource and a coin for 1 VP" type buildings. I guess I should have mentioned that one point is that we are using actions to retrieve Influence tokens all the time from the general supply, to keep the game from ending too quickly.
 
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Mike
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gruescher wrote:
My buddy has cards which boost the Cloud Port, most importantly one which grants an extra VP each time he uses it.

Seems like a good strategy is to take those cards before he can buy them. Remember you can only keep a single assistant from one game to the next, hopefully he hasn't been breaking that rule.
 
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Gerald Rüscher
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Becq wrote:
By 'resources', do you mean resources, coins, and cards? Resources alone can only get you the first row on the Cloud Port grid, and it seems as though it would be easy for the other players to grab one or two of the more efficient slots in that row.

Assuming you meant all three (I think Jamey may have referred to them collectively as 'commodities'), I don't yet know a counterstrategy other than to take the more efficient Cloud Port slots yourself. I'd hope there were alternative strategies by game 9, but haven't played yet, so I have no further suggestions.


Sorry for the confusion; I have the German edition only and I didn't know the correct English term Yes, I mean "all that stuff which can be dropped at the Cloud Port" i.e coins, cards, resources etc.
 
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Randy Shipp
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inconsiderate wrote:
gruescher wrote:
My buddy has cards which boost the Cloud Port, most importantly one which grants an extra VP each time he uses it.

Seems like a good strategy is to take those cards before he can buy them. Remember you can only keep a single assistant from one game to the next, hopefully he hasn't been breaking that rule.


My wife isn’t cheating, but she’s keeping that excellent assistant every game.
 
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Robert Stewart
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inconsiderate wrote:
kredal wrote:
If your whole campaign is based on just getting points to win games, you're not constructing buildings, or getting more personas, or doing anything else that gets you end-of-campaign points. Being more spread out may lose games by a little bit, but it will help you win the campaign. Focusing on a single set of actions over and over while others are building and opening things is probably not the best use of time.

I'd be curious to learn how the campaign ends up for you guys!


Not sure if this was directed at me, but if it was... we are opening boxes and constructing buildings all the time! Most of our points come from doing those things, not doing the little "trade one resource and a coin for 1 VP" type buildings. I guess I should have mentioned that one point is that we are using actions to retrieve Influence tokens all the time from the general supply, to keep the game from ending too quickly.


Sounds like at least some players should be looking at the possibility of rushing the endgame to throw off other players' timing...
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