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Just perusing MMP's web-page of core ASL modules and noticed that For King and Country shows as "Out of Print" rather than "Out of Stock."

Out of Print indicates to me that it is not going to be reprinted without revisions, whereas Out of Stock means that they will do a straight reprint of it when they get the time and have the resources to focus on it.

Am I wrong in my understanding? Has there been any clarification on CSW or Gamesquad? I'm curious more than anything else.
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When it comes to MMP "(temporarily) out of stock" and "out of print" in my experience translate to: "gone forever".

ASL module Rising Sun has been "temporarily out of stock" for more years than I can remember. I eventually broke down and bought a used copy a few years ago.

Not to say they never do reprints... But one look at their "News" section on their website should tell you how active they are. It should be called the "Archives". It's a shame because a lot of their games I find very hot.

It's a catch 22 for me because my love for ASL, but honestly I wish another company like GMT owned the rights. Pretty much any other company. I will never part with my very large ASL collection, but for the last few years I've been searching for a full time replacement. I had hopes for "Combat Commander" and bought the entire run, it didn't fill the gap. I have very high hopes for "The Last Hundred Yards" by GMT. My fingers are crossed.

My advice... Search the pre-owned market. You'll probably grow old before you get what you want. That being said, there are rumors of a few modules coming up for reprint, but I couldn't confirm.

Edit: I just went to their website (first time in several months) and it looks like they announced a reprint of Armies of Oblivion.
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Let me see if I understand you correctly ... you have a very large ASL collection, and you want to change to a different game, because you currently find it difficult to increase the size of your very large ASL collection?

Is there some reason why you just can't play the games in your very large ASL collection while you wait for whatever it is that you're waiting for to be reprinted?

I really don't follow your logic here, sorry.

Incidentally, you are apparently not aware that MMP make two types of ASL products - (1) core modules (including the rules), and (2) everything that isn't a core module. (I'm not including any ASLSK products in this discussion.)

Core modules always get reprinted in some form. That's why they're called "core". Will the next reprint look exactly the same as the last time? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Will you have to possibly wait a very long time before the next reprint is available? Usually, yes. Is that good business? Dunno, maybe not, but it's not my company to run and I don't get a say in it. I would hazard a guess though that they reprint items as frequently as they can afford to.

Things that aren't core modules very rarely get reprinted. Once they're sold out, they're gone for good (in most cases). To date, I think you can count the exceptions to this policy on two thumbs (ASL Journal #2, and Red Barricades). That's why the golden rule of buying ASL products is "don't buy tomorrow what you can buy today, because it might not be available tomorrow". Obviously every individual has their own gaming budget to manage and sometimes that means you have to make hard choices. Nevertheless, the golden rule is what it is.
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Andrei Shlepov
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Because MMP still got a large stock of FKaC which they quietly sell on a black market?cool

The problem with ASL is there are no more straight (read "cheap") reprints of core modules anymore. MMP has to sell ASL to people who already got it so they include additional material for the owners of previous editions to buy them again, which raises the price tag. They call it "helping new players." Well, I think new players would be better served with having cheaper core modules reprints but obviously no business in that.

FKaC was the last great reprint. You could get a heavy box for just $79, including postage.

Luckily, you don't have to own everything to play something. But that's another business secret.cool
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autumnweave wrote:
Just perusing MMP's web-page of core ASL modules and noticed that For King and Country shows as "Out of Print" rather than "Out of Stock."

Out of Print indicates to me that it is not going to be reprinted without revisions, whereas Out of Stock means that they will do a straight reprint of it when they get the time and have the resources to focus on it.

Am I wrong in my understanding? Has there been any clarification on CSW or Gamesquad? I'm curious more than anything else.


I am sorry to see yet another individual having to come to BGG to ask questions about ASL module prints and production schedules, which should be easily found on the MMP website if they were to just dug their heads out of the sandstorm that seems to be blinding them. I don't know what the deal is with that.

Typically people will then get answers from apologists with: 'that's just the way it is, deal with it' themes, or from detractors who are sick of looking at the MMP News webpage, which hasn't been updated in over two years, and who think it's absolutely embarrassingly unprofessional to run a company that can't maintain a website properly in this day and age!

I haven't gone so far as to wish the rights were owned by another company, but I have stated that I think MMP needs a new management infusion when it comes to their ASL line.

Nothing can be done directly about the way MMP decides to run their ASL business but people can support competitive products and put money into them. GMT is an excellent place to put that money but unfortunately I don't recall they have a decent WW2 tactical system. I have hopes for alternatives out there, but as of yet none of them have panned out in terms of comprehensiveness/quality -- as has MMP managed not to screw up too badly over the years since they inherited the ASL package from AH and by the grace of Curt Schilling, bought the licensing rights from Hasbro. Who knows what would have happened if that hadn't occurred?

Thank God for that, at least, nobody can thank Curt enough for that, but it might be time for a changing of the lieutenants and honchos. My assessment is that only some decent competition is going to light a fire over there otherwise.
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BruceP wrote:
Let me see if I understand you correctly ... you have a very large ASL collection, and you want to change to a different game, because you currently find it difficult to increase the size of your very large ASL collection?

Is there some reason why you just can't play the games in your very large ASL collection while you wait for whatever it is that you're waiting for to be reprinted?

I really don't follow your logic here, sorry.



In case you are not aware, one may own the core RB, several core modules, and scores of action packs, add-ons, etc... (A very large collection in the $1000's of dollars) and still be no where near owning everything, let alone getting a hold of the material that REALLY interests you personally. I.E. my struggle acquiring Rising Sun as well as several Pacific expansions.

Yes, I play what I have. I play it solo mainly, with the exception of one good gaming friend I play with a few times a year (for the last two decades) The main reason is that when I attempt to draw someone into ASL, they show great interest until they realize a lot of material is out of reach... Specifically core modules. Some will buy a couple of the ASLSK's and never go deeper than that.

What I mean by "new game" is one that can be played socially in my groups, draw people into it, encourage study of tactics and encourage local competitions. All of which depend on availabilty of product and material. A game which can at least draw a comparison to ASL (hard to do). I could easily host with the material that I own, but it revolves back to: will people invest the time required to learn full ASL for local play, when they can't get anything beyond the most basic of core sets? In my experience the answer is "No. That doesn't cut it."

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Andrei Shlepov wrote:
The problem with ASL is there are no more straight (read "cheap") reprints of core modules anymore.


Any more? What do you class as "cheap"? I don't think it can be said that any ASL core module has ever been cheap. Maybe Paratrooper, when it was released back in 1987.

Now, if what you really mean is simply that the core modules are quite expensive, then yes, they certainly are. I don't think anyone in the history of ever has suggested that ASL is a "cheap and easy" game to get into. More realistically, the question is not what it costs but what is it worth. If you're playing ASL on a regular basis, then IMO the value is much greater than the dollars it cost me. If you don't get to play ASL all that often, then that's a much more difficult question. Every individual has to come to his own decision on that point. Don't ever make the mistake of assuming that whatever works (or doesn't work) for you is a general truth applicable to everybody.

Quote:
MMP has to sell ASL to people who already got it so they include additional material for the owners of previous editions to buy them again, which raises the price tag. They call it "helping new players."


I think it's fair to say that everything in the above paragraph is untrue.
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Epicfox BG wrote:
In case you are not aware, one may own the core RB, several core modules, and scores of action packs, add-ons, etc... (A very large collection in the $1000's of dollars) and still be no where near owning everything


Actually I was aware of that, thanks.

Quote:
let alone getting a hold of the material that REALLY interests you personally. I.E. my struggle acquiring Rising Sun as well as several Pacific expansions.


You've lost me again -- why are your personal interests MMP's fault or responsibility? I'm sure that you have excellent reasons why you were unable to obtain RS when it was readily available for sale. It's a shame that now that you're able to buy it, it's not available any more. I understand your frustration. What I still don't understand is why any of that is a reason to dump what you have managed to acquire (at substantial cost).

Quote:
Yes, I play what I have. I play it solo mainly, with the exception of one good gaming friend I play with a few times a year (for the last two decades)


There are more ASL players, world-wide, than of any other single board wargame. There are opponents out there, right now, waiting for you to reach out and make contact with them. You can do it online. I don't know where in the US you live, but there's a fair chance that there are ftf opponents within easy reach of you. If you're having trouble finding players, I would suggest that you need to try just a little bit harder.

It is unfair and unreasonable to expect new players to be able or willing to make major investments in ASL products until they know that it's something they really want to do. That makes it the responsibility of players who already have the gear to help them out in the interim. The actual rules are not that difficult to obtain, it's the maps and counters that cost the big bucks. It is not a requirement that both players own everything.
 
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BruceP wrote:
What do you class as "cheap"?


Well, FKaC cost was under $100. New Yanks cost much more over that, especially if you include postage.

BruceP wrote:
Don't ever make the mistake of assuming that whatever works (or doesn't work) for you is a general truth applicable to everybody.


Sure. But I don't think there's a general truth applicable to everybody. Moreover, I frequently find my thoughts are shared by other people as well.

BruceP wrote:
I think it's fair to say that everything in the above paragraph is untrue.


Let's take a closer look, then:

1) New core modules reprints became more expensive.

2) They are not straight reprints and do include additional content (mainly maps and scenarios) which certainly add to their cost.

3) The assumption that MMP does this to make former edition owners buying those new editions is entirely mine.

4) The assertion that MMP does this to help new players belongs to Perry Cocke.

 
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BruceP wrote:
You've lost me again -- why are your personal interests MMP's fault or responsibility? I'm sure that you have excellent reasons why you were unable to obtain RS when it was readily available for sale. It's a shame that now that you're able to buy it, it's not available any more. I understand your frustration. What I still don't understand is why any of that is a reason to dump what you have managed to acquire (at substantial cost).


I believe you have not read my comments in whole, or have chosen to pick apart what you wanted. As I stated "I will never part with" as well as "due to my love for" etc...
Also, my final recommended course for the OP was to search the used market to acquire FKaC... I did NOT recommend that he give up on ASL, nor would I ever. For focus on the topic at hand, I could have left out my frustrations of searching for a more readily available replacment... as I see it was a detractor from the OP's question.

I think you also missed that I did get a hold of RS. I'm not an old grog, and my gaming group is made up of younger folks. None of us had a chance to score ASL when it was readily available (not MMP's fault). I'm a fairly new ASL'r (in ASL terms) who forunately has the means to get involved with this great game. To completely ignore or brush off the challenges that new comers face is being unfair. It's a hard enough step to attempt to learn ASL. There are many gamers that are only interested in a specific theatre and can't be tempted into a game where their favorites are not available.

But I digress, and I wish you a Merry Christmas as well.
 
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autumnweave wrote:
Just perusing MMP's web-page of core ASL modules and noticed that For King and Country shows as "Out of Print" rather than "Out of Stock."

Out of Print indicates to me that it is not going to be reprinted without revisions, whereas Out of Stock means that they will do a straight reprint of it when they get the time and have the resources to focus on it.

Am I wrong in my understanding? Has there been any clarification on CSW or Gamesquad? I'm curious more than anything else.


Did someone just mention the OP?

Let me answer his question.

The distinction between "Out of Print" rather than "Out of Stock" is pretty meaningless.

It certainly does not imply what you suggest.

Sorry for any confusion.

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Andrei Shlepov wrote:


Let's take a closer look, then:

1) New core modules reprints became more expensive.

2) They are not straight reprints and do include additional content (mainly maps and scenarios) which certainly add to their cost.

3) The assumption that MMP does this to make former edition owners buying those new editions is entirely mine.

4) The assertion that MMP does this to help new players belongs to Perry Cocke.



1) Reprints are more expensive, and would be even if they had _less_ content.

2) They do have more content, usually more scenarios.

3) Those new scenarios (or other additional content) are ones that many (if not most) long time players already have.

4) By combining the content, we can provide it at a cheaper price point than if it were obtained separately. For new players, who do not already have this stuff, that would seem to me to be advantageous.

I am not going to spend much time defending our prices, since I am proud of the fact that we provide (and are widely acknowledged to provide) the best value in the hobby.
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Andrei Shlepov
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Still, it's harder to jump (or stay) on a bandwagon, so (especially with some already-owned and unplayed stuff) it's probably wise to let it just pass by.

The band will continue to play, though.
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perrycocke wrote:
The distinction between "Out of Print" rather than "Out of Stock" is pretty meaningless.

It certainly does not imply what you suggest.

Sorry for any confusion.



Perry,
Thank you for the response and the clarification. As I mentioned, this was more idle curiosity than anything else.

I apologize for the storm of responses that I created. It certainly was not my intent.

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Andrei Shlepov wrote:
The problem with ASL is there are no more straight (read "cheap") reprints of core modules anymore.

Indeed.

Quote:
MMP has to sell ASL to people who already got it so they include additional material for the owners of previous editions to buy them again,

What about new players? With the ASL Starter Kits there should be some new players who would like to progress to full ASL.

I am a new player. After two or three years of SK (I got SK1, 2, 3 and DaE) I switched to full ASL 12 months ago, and I am happy that I was able to acquire Beyond Valour and Yanks, which were in print at that time. But there are so many additional scenarios (even included in Yanks) which I cannot play because of dependencies I cannot fulfill.

Now I got WO Bonus Pack #2 and #3 and Rivers to the Reich. But I guess there are only two or three scenarios in all of them together which I can play with BV and Yanks.

So the third important core module for me definitely is FKaC, which is nearly impossible to get. It's extremely frustrating to see that the only copy of FKaC is available at Amazon and eBay for more than $500.

Please, think about a reprint, for all the new players! I'm sure that I am not the only one.
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