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Subject: looking for help for a fun set up with all expansions rss

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George Yourgos Yirgis
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Hi everyone

Sorry if this has been posted. I went through a few pages of forum posts and found some useful info but not exactly what I am looking for. I have a 6P game coming up soon and I want to make it fun for everyone. There will be one new player and a couple who have played it once - just the base game. The others are experienced with the base and expansions. I would appreciate some help incorporating the expansions to make it a good experience that will push the group to ask for it again.

1. Is the Cylon leader better than the sympathizer? I am the most experienced player (10 plays) but have never used the CL. It seems that the Daybreak motives are preferred to the Pegasus thingos (ugh can't remember the name).

2. We will most likely use the Kobol objective but open to suggestions.

3. Should I include the Mutineer? I would like to. We are experienced gamers, so I don't expect any problems explaining a few more rules to the new guy. I would like to include the treachery deck, if possible.

4. If we include expansions, does the crisis deck stay at a fixed amount? Should I remove similar cards and add others from the expansions?

5. I want to see some executions. I have played with the possibility but I have never seen it happen. Should I add the Pegasus board? Or just the crisis cards that have executions? Or both?

6. Is the Cylon Fleet Board easy to include in the game?

Thanks for your help! I love this game.
 
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nightboy wrote:
Hi everyone
hi

nightboy wrote:
Sorry if this has been posted. I went through a few pages of forum posts and found some useful info but not exactly what I am looking for. I have a 6P game coming up soon and I want to make it fun for everyone. There will be one new player and a couple who have played it once - just the base game. The others are experienced with the base and expansions. I would appreciate some help incorporating the expansions to make it a good experience that will push the group to ask for it again.

1. Is the Cylon leader better than the sympathizer? I am the most experienced player (10 plays) but have never used the CL. It seems that the Daybreak motives are preferred to the Pegasus thingos (ugh can't remember the name).
The BGG comm. would likely say "yes".
I'd say so as well.

However, lets get the terminology right for the sake of talking on the same page (as opposed to solely for the sake of so)...

Cylon Sympathizer = used in base game | 4p or 6p games
That's where (during Sleeper phase) the player dealt that Loyalty card becomes a revealed, but "CRIPPLED cylon" if all resources are in the blue, or gets brigged if at least 1 resource dial is in the red (NOTE that just b/c this player gets sent to the Brig, he may still be a Cylon! He's still considered a "CRIPPLED cylon" if he reveals as far as gameplay goes)


Sympathetic Cylon = used in games with Pegasus, but NO Daybreak | 4p or 6p games
That's where (during Sleeper phase) the player dealt that Loyalty card becomes a "generic Cylon Leader". He gets a 4/6 Agenda (that's what the thingos are called ), and has from then on to... win. He's "generic" b/c unlike "real CLs", he's got no special ability, no weakness, nor OPG. He's got no skill set either (you just draw 2 cards, or 3 skill cards if you're infiltrating, and either state, they must all be different



nightboy wrote:
2. We will most likely use the Kobol objective but open to suggestions.
I'd say so as well. Ditto with the BGG community. So, say, we all! cool Kobol is pretty much "boring, but tried and true". About as well suited for beginners as it gets

If they're feeling REALLY adventurous, sure.. try the others! The point I'd like to make here is life is short, BGG is a damn difficult game to get played (at least for me, I used to play twice a week, but down to 0 to 2 times per year ). PLAY WHAT YOU WANT. If you feel you need the 'training wheels', then no shame in that at all. However, it's time wasted ramping yourself to that point when you could've just dived right in.


nightboy wrote:
3. Should I include the Mutineer? I would like to. We are experienced gamers, so I don't expect any problems explaining a few more rules to the new guy. I would like to include the treachery deck, if possible.
In this case you may as well include Daybreak exp. in its entirety (as opposed to doing some variant of using only bits and pieces of it). Here, Daybreak includes both Treachery and Mutr. If your newcomer is not that "raw", getting brigged more on average should be tolerable.

NOTE WITH 6p... it's either Mutr. or CL. NOT BOTH!
Also note that if you just want Mutiny (cards), they're part of that core exp. With Mutr., it makes Mutiny cards more prominent is all. How much more so varies per game though.


nightboy wrote:
4. If we include expansions, does the crisis deck stay at a fixed amount? Should I remove similar cards and add others from the expansions?
Rules wise, no. Minus shuffling many more cards, I'm otherwise fine with this.

Some members here recommend doing stuff to maintain ratios... IMO, it's time wasted that could've gone towards explaining the game, or just straight up playing it.

Others will go further and say just play base, or only 1 exp. However, you'll need to determine the tradeoff of what to selectively add as variants, or just straight up forgo some elements. E.g., CL is from Peg and/or Daybreak. However, the same folks who feel this way should be able to provide more insight.

nightboy wrote:
5. I want to see some executions. I have played with the possibility but I have never seen it happen. Should I add the Pegasus board? Or just the crisis cards that have executions? Or both?

Executions are part of Pegasus and/or Exodus. As per the rules, using any set requires you to at the very least use all core materials from those respective sets. E.g. Pegasus means Peggy will be out. Exodus means its crisis cards will also be out. You're not required to do optional stuff, like pick characters from Peg and/or Exo, but they have to be made available (barring character selection rules).

While we're at it, Cally makes executions more prominent, one way or another robot

Otherwise, I'd recommend you NOT do this, as this could warp expectations, and the game itself. E.g. the guy who FINALLY got to be a cylon really pushed us to roll FTL Control, and then refused to reroll when it did NOT avoid a -3 pop loss. That felt a bit too forced IMO.

If you REALLY want to see executions (hey, the human/cylon heart wants what the human/cylon heart wants :x), then do consider taking out some of the "less desirable" cards out

nightboy wrote:
6. Is the Cylon Fleet Board easy to include in the game?

Thanks for your help! I love this game.
Yes and no.

Yes b/c it's one of those things where "you do 20% effort to learn 90% of all you'd need to know". You'll run into corner cases, or may forget key rules (although TBF, you'll likely do so anyways. Nothing against you. It's BSG. It kicks our asses at the rules too, human OR cylon OR Cylon Leader!)

I'd say consider going through the rules, and doing a "dry run" of it in play to familiarize yourself with it?
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Some recommended player aids to print or have on a screen

There are plenty of others in the files section for each set. These are the ones I've seen (shameless plugs, many of them are mine). Print them out and distribute them to players on the opposite ends where the boards are furthest away from players...

PEGASUS
If you're playing this WITHOUT Daybreak, use this Main Game Board (MGB). However, Peggy is still applicable either way
https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/78530/image-pegasus-and-m...

Peggy - not mine, but in color if you have a color printer
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/524007/battlestar-galactica-...



EXODUS
Exodus skill caards
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/889079/battlestar-galact...

If you play with CFB...
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/78528/bw-cylon-fleet-...

if you play with Ionian Nebula objective card...
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/86716/ally-list-refer...


DAYBREAK
Non-Treachery skill cards
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/1749737/battlestar-galac...
Treachery skill cards
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/1749738/battlestar-galac...

If you play with Earth objective...
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/1708801/battlestar-galac...

Hmm, I thought I uploaded files for a new MGB. Perhaps not? Message me and I can get them to you by request



Apps
Companion app for the game with loyalty deck, die roll charts, Lines Of Succession, and reminders of what to do if execution needs to be resolved

For Android
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sethsweep....

For iOS (not sure if the top one will work, so the other one just in case)
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/battlestar-loyalty-deck/id41...
http://appshopper.com/link/battlestar-loyalty-deck
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Mattias Elfström
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Don't forget to check out the Combined Rulebook! It was made for the purpose of playing "all in".

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/68433/battlestar-galactic...
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George Yourgos Yirgis
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ackmondual wrote:
nightboy wrote:
Hi everyone
hi

nightboy wrote:
Sorry if this has been posted. I went through a few pages of forum posts and found some useful info but not exactly what I am looking for. I have a 6P game coming up soon and I want to make it fun for everyone. There will be one new player and a couple who have played it once - just the base game. The others are experienced with the base and expansions. I would appreciate some help incorporating the expansions to make it a good experience that will push the group to ask for it again.

1. Is the Cylon leader better than the sympathizer? I am the most experienced player (10 plays) but have never used the CL. It seems that the Daybreak motives are preferred to the Pegasus thingos (ugh can't remember the name).
The BGG comm. would likely say "yes".
I'd say so as well.

However, lets get the terminology right for the sake of talking on the same page (as opposed to solely for the sake of so)...

Cylon Sympathizer = used in base game | 4p or 6p games
That's where (during Sleeper phase) the player dealt that Loyalty card becomes a revealed, but "CRIPPLED cylon" if all resources are in the blue, or gets brigged if at least 1 resource dial is in the red (NOTE that just b/c this player gets sent to the Brig, he may still be a Cylon! He's still considered a "CRIPPLED cylon" if he reveals as far as gameplay goes)


Sympathetic Cylon = used in games with Pegasus, but NO Daybreak | 4p or 6p games
That's where (during Sleeper phase) the player dealt that Loyalty card becomes a "generic Cylon Leader". He gets a 4/6 Agenda (that's what the thingos are called ), and has from then on to... win. He's "generic" b/c unlike "real CLs", he's got no special ability, no weakness, nor OPG. He's got no skill set either (you just draw 2 cards, or 3 skill cards if you're infiltrating, and either state, they must all be different



nightboy wrote:
2. We will most likely use the Kobol objective but open to suggestions.
I'd say so as well. Ditto with the BGG community. So, say, we all! cool Kobol is pretty much "boring, but tried and true". About as well suited for beginners as it gets

If they're feeling REALLY adventurous, sure.. try the others! The point I'd like to make here is life is short, BGG is a damn difficult game to get played (at least for me, I used to play twice a week, but down to 0 to 2 times per year ). PLAY WHAT YOU WANT. If you feel you need the 'training wheels', then no shame in that at all. However, it's time wasted ramping yourself to that point when you could've just dived right in.


nightboy wrote:
3. Should I include the Mutineer? I would like to. We are experienced gamers, so I don't expect any problems explaining a few more rules to the new guy. I would like to include the treachery deck, if possible.
In this case you may as well include Daybreak exp. in its entirety (as opposed to doing some variant of using only bits and pieces of it). Here, Daybreak includes both Treachery and Mutr. If your newcomer is not that "raw", getting brigged more on average should be tolerable.

NOTE WITH 6p... it's either Mutr. or CL. NOT BOTH!
Also note that if you just want Mutiny (cards), they're part of that core exp. With Mutr., it makes Mutiny cards more prominent is all. How much more so varies per game though.


nightboy wrote:
4. If we include expansions, does the crisis deck stay at a fixed amount? Should I remove similar cards and add others from the expansions?
Rules wise, no. Minus shuffling many more cards, I'm otherwise fine with this.

Some members here recommend doing stuff to maintain ratios... IMO, it's time wasted that could've gone towards explaining the game, or just straight up playing it.

Others will go further and say just play base, or only 1 exp. However, you'll need to determine the tradeoff of what to selectively add as variants, or just straight up forgo some elements. E.g., CL is from Peg and/or Daybreak. However, the same folks who feel this way should be able to provide more insight.

nightboy wrote:
5. I want to see some executions. I have played with the possibility but I have never seen it happen. Should I add the Pegasus board? Or just the crisis cards that have executions? Or both?

Executions are part of Pegasus and/or Exodus. As per the rules, using any set requires you to at the very least use all core materials from those respective sets. E.g. Pegasus means Peggy will be out. Exodus means its crisis cards will also be out. You're not required to do optional stuff, like pick characters from Peg and/or Exo, but they have to be made available (barring character selection rules).

While we're at it, Cally makes executions more prominent, one way or another robot

Otherwise, I'd recommend you NOT do this, as this could warp expectations, and the game itself. E.g. the guy who FINALLY got to be a cylon really pushed us to roll FTL Control, and then refused to reroll when it did NOT avoid a -3 pop loss. That felt a bit too forced IMO.

If you REALLY want to see executions (hey, the human/cylon heart wants what the human/cylon heart wants :x), then do consider taking out some of the "less desirable" cards out

nightboy wrote:
6. Is the Cylon Fleet Board easy to include in the game?

Thanks for your help! I love this game.
Yes and no.

Yes b/c it's one of those things where "you do 20% effort to learn 90% of all you'd need to know". You'll run into corner cases, or may forget key rules (although TBF, you'll likely do so anyways. Nothing against you. It's BSG. It kicks our asses at the rules too, human OR cylon OR Cylon Leader!)

I'd say consider going through the rules, and doing a "dry run" of it in play to familiarize yourself with it?



Thanks for this! Very helpful
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George Yourgos Yirgis
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Mattias wrote:
Don't forget to check out the Combined Rulebook! It was made for the purpose of playing "all in".

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/68433/battlestar-galactic...



I should have mentioned that I have the combined rulebook. Thanks for making it!
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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Our regular setup is all expansions with Cylon Fleet Board, personal goals and final five, adjusted treachery (half of Pegasus treachery mixed in), to Kobol.

Cylon Leader with Motives if 4 or 6 players.

For regular plays it doesn't really matter if you throw in your 'suspected best' setup for your group even if you have one player who is a little less experienced. Having played the core game is a good foundation.
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Robert Stewart
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My default setup is all expansions to Kobol, no CFB, Cylon Leader (with motives) if anyone wants to play one, Mutineer if needed. Most games I've played have had at least one new player.
 
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If you're playing with six people and just trying to have fun, anything goes. It really depends, however, on what matches your group's definition of fun.

If you're playing with a group where "every decision should matter"--you want to play with as little expansion material as possible.

If you're playing with a group that is less concerned with control over the game, and more interested in a more swingy board-state, go with more expansion material.

I play this game very competitively. I want to win. The Base Game is probably the best environment for competitive Battlestar.

If you are playing for the theme, do whatever you want with the game. I would avoid going "full hog" with new players, however. Personally, I find it becomes a slog when you basically need to tell a new player what they should/should not do for the duration of the game.
 
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My recommendation would be all components of the Base Game plus:

From Pegasus/Exodus: just Characters (except Cally, Cain, and Dee) and the replacement Investigative Committee Skill Cards

From Daybreak (the minimum set per the rulebook): Characters, Skill Cards, mutiny deck, Colonial One overlay, Cylon board overlay, Crisis Cards, Miracle tokens, Assault Raptors, Cylon Leader (since you have 6P; remove if you have only 5)

To answer your specific questions:
1. BSG isn't at its best with 6, regardless. Cylon Leader is a less bad option than the others. Don't use Pegasus Agendas.

2. Kobol is the best objective.

3. The Mutineer produces an effectively extra human player with the "drawback" of the Mutineer being in the brig more frequently. Adding the role benefits the humans greatly.

4. Daybreak's additions to the Crisis Card deck are pretty well balanced. 30 cards with a similar distribution to the original game. I always advise doing a Pandemic-style shuffle of the Cylon Attack Crisis Cards, though (split the deck into equal parts and shuffle two Cylon Attack cards into each part, then stack them together).

5. Executions really muck things up (either by risking leaving a YAAC card in the loyalty deck or by being too easy to force loyalty checks), so it's easier to not add them in.

6. Like executions, the Cylon Fleet Board produces degenerate strategies. It's worth trying once or twice, just as all modules are, but it's definitively worse than the standard option.

The base game is really good on its own, but I find the base skill card set to be too limited (and revealed Cylon play too uninteresting). Daybreak's additional skill cards resolve both issues nicely, without breaking anything. Additionally, as I mentioned above, the Cylon Leader (using Daybreak's mechanics) is the best option for 6 players support.
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Zoltan
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emagius wrote:
the Cylon Fleet Board produces degenerate strategies. It's worth trying once or twice, just as all modules are, but it's definitively worse than the standard option.


I disagree. Definitely worse? Well I think there is no worse than once you are pulling and pulling crisises all times and even after 10 crisises you did not see a single cylon attack.... and then... then... 5 comes in a row! Or, nothing comes for the next 5 cards either. While humans are jumping, and jumping... and the pilots getting bored and bored to death.

Benefits of the CFB:
- the pilot role is not useless anymore, people are selecting it and it is not "I need to play pilot because no one did but someone have to be", with CFB this is gone. Being a pilot is a vital role.
- you can build strategies by deciding how many cylon ships you leave on the main game board and from which type, and how you are kiting them around.
- civilian ships does not just disappears from the main game board with the jump. You need to work for them to be gone. More realistic.
- the dependency from the cylon attack cards are gone. It is absolutely annoying and bad that the cards tells you when the cylons can attack and if there is no card, you have no enemy. The main board is empty. Bah, bad.
- Cylon bridge: a very good side option for the cylons to play with. It is epic.

So I really do not get why do you say CFB is "worse". It is not worse, you just need to understand how to play it and then it comes much better from the base variant. I'm not playing a single game without the CFB and all of our games are epic.
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Robert Stewart
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Croaton wrote:
- civilian ships does not just disappears from the main game board with the jump. You need to work for them to be gone. More realistic.


I don't think there's anything realistic about civilian ships disappearing from space, whether it happens automatically after a jump, or as a result of actions spent getting rid of them - if raiders are targeting civilians, then surely it's better for as many civilians as possible to be nearby where Galactica and her viper wings can protect them rather than off somewhere also to be preyed on indiscriminately?

And how does a Viper make a civilian ship disappear from space with an action? Maybe we need to ask the Olympic Carrier about that? Because the only way I can think of for a Viper to make a civilian ship disappear is with its guns...
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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The Viper activation is called Escort.

How one viper can be escorting multiple civilians to protect them from raiders, I don't know. But it's still thematically better than all of the civilian ships staying with the cylon ships when Galactica jumps and the cylons choosing not to destroy the civilians and continue pursuing Galactica instead.

With CAC it seems the civilians returning to Galactica also brings the cylon ships. Why is it then so much of a surprise for the players to see civilians and cylon ships? Don't they have comms with the civilian ships to know when they arrive to make the cylons some traps?
 
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Robert Stewart
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I think the battle for realism was lost when ships couldn't fly over/below Galactica...
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