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Subject: Any Way to Make ZBP's Threats/Monsters More Versatile Like MD? rss

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Michael Johnson
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Really like the system for ZBP, but am growing weary of the somewhat one dimensional threat/monsters of ZBP. Any way to incorporate monsters of (or like) MD?
 
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Max Maloney
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"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason." -Jack Handey
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If you want monsters and enemy AI from MD, why not simply play MD? Zombicide is about zombies. Shouldn’t they act like zombies? Zombies are a threat that never stops coming; they are not a clever and inventive threat!
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Forsetius
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I think ZBP is supposed to be a fairly simple game with the complexity stemming from the different kinds of Z's and how many activations they have or what it takes to kill them. It is a strategy game where you have to consider statistical chances of outcomes from spawns and levelling and counter with group composition and turn by turn tactical decisions. The whole theme is just flavor.

MD on the other hand is all about flavor and capturing that D&D feeling from our childhood. The rules are just a means to an end, facilitating the GM role so that everyone can participate on equal terms.

So a direct comparison is not really relevant. I enjoy both types of games, so I am trying not to be biased here
 
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Daniel Palma
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Id argue Zombicides monsters are far more versatile than MD. I've played both with dozens and hours and once the kickstarter magic of MD wore off , I'm sorry to say im quite disappointed with the monsters of MD. In zcide each monster feels different. Crows fly, runners move two spaces, nercos move to a spawn point, wolves move 3, monsters breaks walls or pull you to them etc etc. In MD most monsters , while many different species, just have a different amount in terms of dice. There may be some small special things they do according to the dice rolls but its not mechanically different.

Also the threat level is far superior in Zcide where you have them coming from all sides of the map and in MD its usually very linear how the monsters approach you.
 
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Chuck Hurd
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bulletdan wrote:
Id argue Zombicides monsters are far more versatile than MD. I've played both with dozens and hours and once the kickstarter magic of MD wore off , I'm sorry to say im quite disappointed with the monsters of MD. In zcide each monster feels different. Crows fly, runners move two spaces, nercos move to a spawn point, wolves move 3, monsters breaks walls or pull you to them etc etc. In MD most monsters , while many different species, just have a different amount in terms of dice. There may be some small special things they do according to the dice rolls but its not mechanically different.

Also the threat level is far superior in Zcide where you have them coming from all sides of the map and in MD its usually very linear how the monsters approach you.

I think your analysis is spot on. Out of the box I can see MD becoming quite stale in it's linear aspect. That's why we're testing out some of the door and event deck variants and variants on monster AI. We're trying to get the heroes out of the linear aspect and put them unexpectedly into situations that require thought and team work. I believe that is what MD is missing when it's compared to the D&D legacy. There is no element of the unexpected.

As to the OP, I'm quite happy with the AI of ZBP. I think it would have helped if more if it were migrated to MD.
 
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Forsetius
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spartan67 wrote:
Really like the system for ZBP, but am growing weary of the somewhat one dimensional threat/monsters of ZBP. Any way to incorporate monsters of (or like) MD?


How about the ZBP/MD X-over pack?
 
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spartan67 wrote:
Really like the system for ZBP, but am growing weary of the somewhat one dimensional threat/monsters of ZBP. Any way to incorporate monsters of (or like) MD?


Have you seen the work that Chris (epawn) did a little while back with his adapted MD mob and Roaming Monster spawn cards and monster rules?

Not sure if this is what you are looking for or not, but definitely worth a look. The thread can be found HERE.

They are still MD Mobs and Monsters for the most part, which means that they only offer subtle differences when compared to Walkers or Abominations, but they will certainly add some variety and also extend the life of your MD minis.

 
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Eric B
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bulletdan wrote:
Id argue Zombicides monsters are far more versatile than MD. I've played both with dozens and hours and once the kickstarter magic of MD wore off , I'm sorry to say im quite disappointed with the monsters of MD. In zcide each monster feels different. Crows fly, runners move two spaces, nercos move to a spawn point, wolves move 3, monsters breaks walls or pull you to them etc etc. In MD most monsters , while many different species, just have a different amount in terms of dice. There may be some small special things they do according to the dice rolls but its not mechanically different.

Also the threat level is far superior in Zcide where you have them coming from all sides of the map and in MD its usually very linear how the monsters approach you.


I have been saying this for awhile now. I think once people have a number of games under their belts, they will start to see how similar a lot of Massive Darkness' aspects feel (event cards, door cards, enemies, etc.).

Not only do a lot of MD mobs feel the same, the designers even went so far as to double up on some of the species. Did we really need two types of melee dwarves, orcs, and Troglodytes? There are so many fantasy creatures to draw inspiration from. The Agent's are probably the worst culprits since they all do the exact same thing (except the Reptisaurian one). The only variation is they have slightly different stats and the models.

The Roaming Monsters are probably the best in terms of variety, especially if you get the KSE stuff. Unfortunately they don't spawn near as much as the guards so you don't get to experience them more often. At this point I am just hopeful Guillotine will go back and address a lot of these issues for MD2.

It's a shame because it wouldn't have taken a ton of work on Guillotine's part to add more variety. I guess they were just too busy putting in story mode and trying to fix other aspects like the broken Shadow Mode and balancing things to get around to it? The flavor text on enemies seems to have been a lot more inspired during the KS. Ratlings that moved quickly in the shadows, Trolls that regenerated, etc. I dunno why they didn't stick with this.
 
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