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Rise and Decline of the Third Reich» Forums » Variants

Subject: “Throw away your dice” Variant rss

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Konstantinos K
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Are you tired of hearing your opponent complaining how lucky you are? Are you also tired of constantly rolling badly and losing games you think you should have won? If you think you fall into these two categories, which is 99% of us, you will like the following variant. This variant is conceived as an optional “add on” to my “simplified 3R” variant that aims to bring 3R closer to chess in sophistication, simplicity, and strategic depth! See https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1782020/simple-third-reich-... for details.
So, throw away your dice!
All roll situations are treated as below:

Every 3-1 attack or higher is an automatic D, every 2-1 is an automatic EX-CA, every 1-1 an automatic full EX, and every 1-2 or lower an automatic A.
Naval battles are treated as tied unmodified rolls. All air battles are treated as tied unmodified rolls, as well, but Counterairs or DAS interceptions with less factors against a larger uninverted force are not allowed. If the modified rolls are tied the “losses if tied” roll is an automatic 3. Attacks against naval forces at port can’t be done unless someone can have at least three uninverted AF in hand. For every three AF attacking there is an automatic loss of 1AF and 1 NF. If the naval force has less than 3AF, no naval losses are incurred. For attacks on naval forces at sea, a minimum of 5AF are required and there is an automatic loss of 1AF for every 5AF and 1NF for every 6 NF, so the naval force will only lose a NF if it has 6NF or more. Attrition rolls are treated as an automatic 2 for column 1-10, a 3 for a column 11-20, and a 2 for all other columns. Naval interceptions are automatic for range 1-20, and cannot occur (period!) for 21 hex range and up.
Have I forgotten any other situation that needs those dice?
If not, no more “my opponent is lucky” complaints! You own your win or loss fair and square! No more 4-6 combos, and the like...No more As or Ds on 1-1s either!
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Giorgos Flouris
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I'm afraid such a modification would take away much of the beauty of the game.

For example, having the guarantee that a 1-1 attack will succeed (even with heavy losses) would take away much of the planning process for the attacker (and the defender, for that matter), but also favour the attacker (because bold attacks would never be punished enough).

Of course, one could consider it in the context of a game simplification, but still, I have some reservations as to whether it could actually help new players love the game, or whether it could drive them away.
 
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Konstantinos K
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fgeo wrote:
I'm afraid such a modification would take away much of the beauty of the game.

For example, having the guarantee that a 1-1 attack will succeed (even with heavy losses) would take away much of the planning process for the attacker (and the defender, for that matter), but also favour the attacker (because bold attacks would never be punished enough).

Of course, one could consider it in the context of a game simplification, but still, I have some reservations as to whether it could actually help new players love the game, or whether it could drive them away.


As any variant, this is -of course- optional...even as an add-on to the simplified version...But beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Chess has no dice, and this variant makes 3R very much like chess, with a historical tune and a lot more variety...Moves can be planned and executed with precision!
 
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Konstantinos K
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fgeo wrote:
For example, having the guarantee that a 1-1 attack will succeed (even with heavy losses) would take away much of the planning process for the attacker (and the defender, for that matter), but also favour the attacker (because bold attacks would never be punished enough).


Yes, the guaranteed success even with an EX on an 1-1 is a concern, and it will encourage more aggressive play that favors Axis early in the game. However there is a big price to pay, and a player who keeps winning with full EXs will bankrupt himself...It is definitely not a panacea.
On the other hand, there are some hyper aggressive players who like to take coin-toss 1-1 in which an Advance after combat is required (aiming for a CAEX or a D), or 1-2 on armor aiming for an EX (which has about 40% of success). Both those possibilities are now gone if you use the “no dice” variant!
 
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craig grinnell
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speer
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For good or bad, I've always looked at the dice as factoring in the intangible aspects of a battle.
The incompetence/mistakes of a commander in the field, mistaken air attack or other friendly fire incidents, shear "dumb luck," fear or ineptitude of the soldiers in the field, superior experience that is inherent in a long time veteran, or even the good fortune of finding a sneaky route into an enemy's rear area.
While planning a battle can be chess-like, actually fighting it does entail a huge amount of luck and misstep.

But I do like your idea of simplifying this game.
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Carl Schweppe
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Very interesting. A couple of things: Vichy colonies, vichy activation and intelligence rolls need to be taken care of.

I think the change to attrition rolls always getting a hex will be pretty large and benefitting the axis, as they can reinforce North Africa easier than England can, so they can handle blowing up 1-3's to keep hexes better.

I also think that England's navies will get very badly stretched in 1941. To keep the germans from invading england if they have 4 fleets, there needs to be 6 in England to offset the +1 modifier for Germany, which means there are only 3 in the med and one in Gib cannot intercept an invasion on the eastern end of the Med. My guess is that Egypt will fall in nearly every game, though sea lion becomes much more difficult.

Really interesting ideas, though.
 
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Konstantinos K
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AutomatedTeller wrote:
Very interesting. A couple of things: Vichy colonies, vichy activation and intelligence rolls need to be taken care of.

This is correct and there is no way out of those, if you play by the full rules, (variants etc.), but please look at https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1782020/simple-third-reich-.... Have a look on item 16) about Vichy, for example. The “no dice” variant together with the simplified rules completely gets rid of dice for everything, I think...but perhaps I still missed something...

AutomatedTeller wrote:

I think the change to attrition rolls always getting a hex will be pretty large and benefitting the axis, as they can reinforce North Africa easier than England can, so they can handle blowing up 1-3's to keep hexes better.

I also think that England's navies will get very badly stretched in 1941. To keep the germans from invading england if they have 4 fleets, there needs to be 6 in England to offset the +1 modifier for Germany, which means there are only 3 in the med and one in Gib cannot intercept an invasion on the eastern end of the Med. My guess is that Egypt will fall in nearly every game, though sea lion becomes much more difficult.

Really interesting ideas, though.


True, but I would say that overall, having no fear of A result for 1-1 attacks is more of a concern I have, rather than these issues...UK has to be very careful with airborne drops in British ports, and in reverse, if the Axis player does the slightest mistake in the end of its Fall 39 turn, the Allied player can win the game with a double turn knocking out Italy or Germany.
However, please note that on the simplified rules there is not a double turn any more, except for one situation. So planning a double turn that includes successes in 1-1s no longer can apply, if you,play with both these optional variants together.
 
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