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Twilight Imperium (Fourth Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Rules Issues rss

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Badoux Jerome
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I realised a few flaw in the rules or confusing texts.

First in the rules it says you can produce during a Tactical action in a system that contains a space dock but don't talk about any other units ... But what about the Arborec?
Can a unit produce in the same turn it moved (like arborec or Clan of Saar? It was not possible in the 3rd edition but don't seems to see anything against it now...

Many cards or abilities allow you to produce a unit (or more)but it is always confusing if you have to pay for it or not (it seems overpowered sometimes if yes but for some other if not it seems pretty underpowered)

And I realised many races where balanced (Arborec have been boosted, Yssaril nerfed, etc...) but Ghost of Creuss that were among the weakest races in the 3rd edition have been even more nerfed (because same as in 3 but cannot block wormholes anymore) .... Is there something I might have missed about Ghosts of Creuss?
 
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Jan Probst
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Arborec and Saar can build after moving now, yes.

If you "produce" (be that via using PRODUCTION ability or because a card allows to) you pay.
 
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Siven Atreides
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The rules reference handles the more advanced situations. During a tactical action, any unit with the production ability can produce units.

Units CAN produce the same turn that they moved (other than the Arborec flagship which needs to be in the active system when it is activated).

If a card uses the phrase "produce" a unit, then yes, you have to pay for it. If you "place a unit from your reinforcements" you do not have to pay for it.

The Creuss, can't block wormholes anymore, true, but between gravity drive and slipstream, their mobility has been increased. Whether or not you consider them balanced is up to you to decide.
 
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Clayton Threadgill
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Agone07 wrote:
First in the rules it says you can produce during a Tactical action in a system that contains a space dock but don't talk about any other units ... But what about the Arborec?
Can a unit produce in the same turn it moved (like arborec or Clan of Saar? It was not possible in the 3rd edition but don't seems to see anything against it now...

78.5 STEP 5—PRODUCTION: The active player may resolve the "Production" abilities of his units in the active system.

This includes any units with production, not just space docks. Nothing in the TI4 rules prevents a unit from moving and producing in the same turn.

Agone07 wrote:
Many cards or abilities allow you to produce a unit (or more)but it is always confusing if you have to pay for it or not (it seems overpowered sometimes if yes but for some other if not it seems pretty underpowered)

You must always pay to "produce" a unit. If an ability wants to give you a unit for free, it will say "place" instead.

Agone07 wrote:
And I realised many races where balanced (Arborec have been boosted, Yssaril nerfed, etc...) but Ghost of Creuss that were among the weakest races in the 3rd edition have been even more nerfed (because same as in 3 but cannot block wormholes anymore) .... Is there something I might have missed about Ghosts of Creuss?

I've won several games of TI3 as the Ghosts, so I'm not sure where you're coming from. Not being able to block wormholes anymore is a nerf, but the Creuss flagship has been upgraded. In addition to all the shenanigans it could pull of in TI3, it can now let a fleet (including itself) retreat to your home system through wormhole D, and now that PDS II can fire through wormholes you can shoot from your home system to any system containing your flagship.
 
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Badoux Jerome
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Oh man..... didn't thought of that PDS thing ... pretty nice.

For TI* yes you can win with any race but Ghost of Creuss is just more challenging to win with.
I don't think however the flagship was boosted just modified slightly. (or a very little nerf)... I will try a few game before say for sure Creuss are weakers but I agreed with every single balancing to the races (some are almost exactly what I did in home rules to balance it)... I agree with all but Creuss... so wait and see.
 
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J Kaemmer
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Ghosts were actually buffed quite a bit and I think are quite good now. The buffs just aren't always direct in some cases.

You missed the +1 to move starting in wormholes and your home system.

The bonus movement plus starting with gravity drive gives them the most default range for expansion in the game since nobody starts with Gravity Drive or XRD. Let's you get the best planets early or even MR.

Flagships are now quite viable in gameplay, unlike in TI3, mostly because the new resource balance and lower build limits on average (since Space Dock 2 is harder to get and Space Docks are slower to build). Ghosts' Flagship is amazing, btw.

The changes to PDS rules saying that wormholes count as adjacent for all purposes give them several more advantages like PDS fire and counting as neighbors for trading purposes. Have fun targeting all wormhole system with PDS, with ease.

Combine PDS2 with Plasma Scoring and the Flagship? 3 precombat shots @5 for anywhere the Flagship goes. The Dimensional SPlaicer tech is easier to get too, so that flaghip becomes a beast (1 auto-hit you assign before combat, plus 3 precombat shots.)


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Scott Lewis
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iswearihaveajob wrote:
Flagships are now quite viable in gameplay, unlike in TI3, mostly because the new resource balance and lower build limits on average (since Space Dock 2 is harder to get and Space Docks are slower to build).

I think one of the biggest boosts to Flagships, too, is that in TI4 you are no longer required to build them at your home system, so you can get them in the thick of things right from the start, rather than taking a few turns to get them there. In TI3, there were many times players didn't bother building them because it would take too long for them to be useful.

Quote:
The changes to PDS rules saying that wormholes count as adjacent for all purposes give them several more advantages like PDS fire and counting as neighbors for trading purposes. Have fun targeting all wormhole system with PDS, with ease.

It's also a lot easier to teach people how wormholes work, too. No more "connected, but not in this case or that case" They are connected, period.
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Gandalf the Greyjoy
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sigmazero13 wrote:
I think one of the biggest boosts to Flagships, too, is that in TI4 you are no longer required to build them at your home system, so you can get them in the thick of things right from the start, rather than taking a few turns to get them there. In TI3, there were many times players didn't bother building them because it would take too long for them to be useful.

This. I had a tough lesson last game, where I built my flagship relatively far away from the frontline. It is sooo damn slow, it's really important to build it right next to a conflict spot.
 
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