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Subject: Pedantic, Math based question... rss

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Mark Cicero
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... so feel free to ignore!

I'm just kind of curious how people are handling the 1/3 and 1/2 kills for the gunners.

Mathematically, combining these would require award sixth kills to gunners in a lot of cases, which just strikes me being ... overly precise, in a way.

I've found myself just rounding up or down to the nearest 1/2 or 1/3, to make things easier.

Is this what other people are doing, or are you tracking kills to the sixth?
 
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Gerry Palmer
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Yes, when I was still playing this I tracked them to the sixth. Seemed sort of weird but certainly not too much of a brain drain.
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Lou Correia
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I've just decided to count anything less than 1/3 as No Credit.
Even with the Review Board rule in TFT, the awarded kills are still high.

Another option I'm considering, as a house rule, is when the claim is between a turret and a single gun (Radio Room, Waist, or Cheek), and the Review Board only grants half a victory, that the twin-guns get the half credit and the poor Navigator or Waist Gunner gets nothing.

Here is a list of the officially recognized American gunner Aces. I was surprised it included a Waist Gunner. It is a short list:

S/SGT Michael Arooth- 17. B-17(Tail Gunner)
S/SGT Arthur J. Benko -16. B-24(Top Turret)
S/SGT Donald Crossley-12. B-17 (Tail Gunner)
S/SGT Benjamin F Warner- 9. B-17 (Waist Gunner)
S/SGT John B Quinlan -8 B-17(5),B-29(3)(Tail Gunner)(Gunner on Memphis Belle)
T/SGT Thomas Dye -8. B-17(Ball Turret)
S/SGT John D. Foley-7. B-26(Top Turret)
S/SGT John A. Murphy-6. B-25(Top Turret)(all Zero’s)
T/SGT Weston (Wes) Loegering-5. B-26 (Top Turret)
SFC Richard H Thomas-5. USN B-24 (Front Turret)
ARM2 Paul Ganshirt-5 USN B-24 (Top Turret)

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/air-gunner-aces.27065/
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Mark Cicero
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Limburger59 wrote:
I've just decided to count anything less than 1/3 as No Credit.
Even with the Review Board rule in TFT, the awarded kills are still high.

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/air-gunner-aces.27065/


I've kind of noticed that. In my online campaign, I've got three gunners at ACE status -- 7 1/2 or so kills each -- after four missinons.

In fact, I've had three gunnder get >3 kills on a mission which, according to some campaign info I dug up in some corner of the internt (which was for a QoTS campaign, I think) warrents a Distinguished Flying Cross!

On the other hand, I was "Tail end Charlie" in the last mission I flew, which DOES increase the target count a bit...
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Jim P
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NorthstarNY wrote:
Limburger59 wrote:
I've just decided to count anything less than 1/3 as No Credit.
Even with the Review Board rule in TFT, the awarded kills are still high.

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/air-gunner-aces.27065/


I've kind of noticed that. In my online campaign, I've got three gunners at ACE status -- 7 1/2 or so kills each -- after four missinons.

In fact, I've had three gunnder get >3 kills on a mission which, according to some campaign info I dug up in some corner of the internt (which was for a QoTS campaign, I think) warrents a Distinguished Flying Cross!

On the other hand, I was "Tail end Charlie" in the last mission I flew, which DOES increase the target count a bit...


That little corner of the internet was my 281st BG(V) Campaign right here on BGG.

The rule read;
- To a gunner that has shot down five or more enemy planes on one mission.
- To a pilot or copilot that is the only crew in their squadron that reaches the target and drops their bombs on the target regardless of results.
- To the pilots that return to base with five or more crew dead or seriously wounded.
- To any crewman that forgoes their own safety for the good of the crew. This act must entail possible injury or death to be awarded.


Please remember, as I tried to keep the missions historically accurate, the awards and lucky charms are there to add interest to the campaign. Medals are a hard cookie to integrate. Take TfT, it's medal rules are so random that the MoH is in a simple die roll. In the 164 missions I hosted only once was there an instance where a player nominated the MoH and I think we denied it. This medal should be SO HARD to win in any game that offers it that maybe only one is awarded in the thousands of players, so as to not trivialize the award in a simple game where the only danger is getting a Paper Cut.

If anyone is interested you can see the 281st BG(V)House rules HERE and spicificly the Medals HERE.
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Lou Correia
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jasta6 wrote:

That little corner of the internet was my 281st BG(V) Campaign right here on BGG.

And if you find it being used on another Play-by-Forum campaign, you can be sure that it was inspired by Jim's research and creation on the 281st.
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Mark Cicero
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I must have found a slightly different version, since it clearly recommends a DFC for three or more aircraft, instead of the five or more on your list.

The five does make a bit more sense, since the three kills seem to come a bit easily.

Also, since it's a little hard to tell in writing, the "little corner" comment was meant to be lightly humerous, not dismissive. I really do appreciate all of you who put in the extra effort to gather and distribute things liks this for the less knowledgeable/more lazy of us out here!
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Jim P
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NorthstarNY wrote:
I must have found a slightly different version, since it clearly recommends a DFC for three or more aircraft, instead of the five or more on your list.

The five does make a bit more sense, since the three kills seem to come a bit easily.


Yes I believe you are correct that one of the older campaigns had this award system. Maybe the 99th BG or the 400th BG (10BW) [by Steve Dixon] had this criteria. I worked with Mike Lam, of the 88th BG, along with our own Damon, to develop my version of awards. Again it is all subjective as we don't have a full board to tell us if we are right or wrong.

NorthstarNY wrote:
Also, since it's a little hard to tell in writing, the "little corner" comment was meant to be lightly humerous, not dismissive. I really do appreciate all of you who put in the extra effort to gather and distribute things liks this for the less knowledgeable/more lazy of us out here!


It was totally meant in humor. Sorry if it came across as dismissive. My wife tells me that my humor can be a bit dry/harsh. It surly wasn't meant in disrespect.

I know that not everyone is as passionate about B-17:QotS and this game, TFT, due to my love of WW2 history, aviation particularly. My father was in the USAAC but thankfully never saw combat due to the wars end. I guess this is where it all comes from.
 
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Jim P
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But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you… And I will beat you.
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Limburger59 wrote:
jasta6 wrote:

That little corner of the internet was my 281st BG(V) Campaign right here on BGG.

And if you find it being used on another Play-by-Forum campaign, you can be sure that it was inspired by Jim's research and creation on the 281st.


I am humbled that others use my house rules, as I was inspired by those who came before me. Such as Steve Dixon, creator of TFT, CO of the 400th BG-10BW,, and Mike Lam CO of the 88th online bombardment group and Hayward's (?) 200th BG. Plus Eric's Lancaster 314 Squadron. Then there is Bruce Peckham who has brought us so many great additions to the B-17:QotS's game. Pluse many others too. These are the true greats of these games who I worked with or borrowed and refined their original work to come up with these house rules.

Thank you Lou!
 
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