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Subject: Escargots rss

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Martin
Canada
Québec
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How the escargots works ? The turn they go in decline, do they score at the start of the turn and after going in decline ? Or only once this turn ?
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Vespert Ilio
France
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How they work: At the end of your turn, you don’t gain the regular VPs for occupying regions. You do however gain bonus VPs from their Special Power (that part confused me a lot, presumably Swamp Escargots would gain the bonus 1 VPs from swamps, but not for the region itself yet). At the start of your next turn, that’s when you gain the VPs for the regions you occupy at that moment (so if you lost regions between your two turns, you don’t gain VPs for those)

Going into decline: On the turn you decide to decline, first you still gain the VPs for occupying regions at the start of your turn, then you declare that you’re going into decline, decline the Escargots, then because their racial power doesn’t apply anymore, you gain the VPs for the regions occupied by the in-decline Escargots, just like a regular in-decline race. Problem: I have no idea how Stout Escargots would work...
 
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Ryan Renner
United States
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Vespert wrote:
How they work: At the end of your turn, you don’t gain the regular VPs for occupying regions. You do however gain bonus VPs from their Special Power (that part confused me a lot, presumably Swamp Escargots would gain the bonus 1 VPs from swamps, but not for the region itself yet). At the start of your next turn, that’s when you gain the VPs for the regions you occupy at that moment (so if you lost regions between your two turns, you don’t gain VPs for those)

Going into decline: On the turn you decide to decline, first you still gain the VPs for occupying regions at the start of your turn, then you declare that you’re going into decline, decline the Escargots, then because their racial power doesn’t apply anymore, you gain the VPs for the regions occupied by the in-decline Escargots, just like a regular in-decline race. Problem: I have no idea how Stout Escargots would work...


I see your logic that the Escargots would score twice, but that doesn't sound right to me - I would have thought they'd explicitly state that in the rules if that were the case. Hopefully we get an official ruling soon. I would think if you're correct about Escargots scoring twice, they would do so when paired with Stout - score at the beginning and end of turn - unless of course they were selected and put into decline in one turn - then they wouldn't score at the beginning of the first (and only) turn with them as usual).
 
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Steven Woods
United Kingdom
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Scoring twice in one turn doesn't sound right because it sounds like they're getting too many points, but in reality they're only getting their delayed scoring from the last turn, followed by the points they get for declining which is normal. So if they had 2 turns active and declined on the third, they would still only score 3 times total in that time: Once on turn 2 and twice on turn 3, I think that's only fair, they've already had a big enough drawback by letting everyone attack them before they score.
I'm really surprised it wasn't clarified in the rules though, as it is very confusing and will almost always occur in a game.

As for Stout, I would argue that it's probably not a great synergy for Escargot as I think they would score on the following turn (as if they were still active). I think this because stout races score while they are active, and then go in decline afterwards, this means the escargot power is still in effect when it comes to scoring, meaning they have to wait til next turn to score (which is obviously a drawback and so stout isn't actually amazing on escargots).
 
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Vespert Ilio
France
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Well, I'd argue that Stout Escargots are no longer active once they go into decline. All the other races act that way: Stout Halflings immediately lose their immunity tokens, Stout Kobolds are no longer limited to a minimum of 2 per region, Stout Pygmies won't re-roll the die if they are attacked, Stout White Ladies immediately become immune, etc. So Escargots won't score at the beginning of their next turn once they are in decline. So yes, Stout Escargots is a pretty bad combo because you lose one turn of scoring.
 
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Hans Moleman
United States
Chicago
Illinois
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I was saying boo-urns
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Yup -- Stout Escargot is terrible.

Stout declines after scoring -- brutal combo (in a bad way)
 
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