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Twilight Imperium (Fourth Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Duranium Armor and ground combat rss

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Russell Jones
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Hello to the Imperium. Ran into this situation during a game recently - at question is whether or not Duranium Armor can be used on ships orbiting a ground combat.

Here's what happened:

- A space battle ends with attacking player remaining with damaged dreadnoughts.
- Attacking player commits ground forces and goes through one round of ground combat.
- Attacking player tries to use Duranium Armor to repair a damaged dreadnought hanging out in orbit, because it is the end of a combat round.

The text for Duranium Armor says; During each combat round, after you assign hits to your units, repair one of your damaged units that did not use sustain damage during this combat round.

My argument was the ships cannot be assigned hits and cannot use sustain damage, so they are not in the combat to activate DA. Their argument was it just says "combat round", and you should repair one ship each ground combat round that passes.

I've done multiple searches and my Google-fu as well as forum search engines have not helped me. Anyone else got a source to help with this?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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He has a point on the wording of the card, but it is clearly against the intent.

This is a case of rules lawyering going a little too far.
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Omni Pyrmaeus
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Yeah, I'd say that the wording is too general for its intended purpose. All you would need to do is add that D.A. can only be used "by a unit participating in the combat," and I would not be surprised if an errata/FAQ/ruling were to come out saying just that. It may even be that, buried somewhere in the rules, a general "abilities can only be used by participating units" may already explicitly exist.

Otherwise, why limit it to ships in orbit? You fought me in Abyz/Fria and I come out of it with a damaged dreadnought, then I counterattack you in Arinam/Meer with a bunch of cruisers and repair my dreadnought in the other sector...
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Jan Probst
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Ridiculously stupid. Would A expect to get to repair his Dreadnought becauce B and C are fighting a space battle? Those are also "end of combat rounds".
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Christopher Halbower
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The intent of Duranium armor is that your units involved in that combat can repair if they didn’t sustain damage.

As Jan pointed out, it’s ridiculous to conclude otherwise.

Suppose I have a damaged ship on Mecatol Rex. Could it repair during a round of combat when I’m currently fighting in Lodor?
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Scott Lewis
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I think it's pretty obvious that it's only referencing units in the combat in question. Otherwise, like halbower says, you could start healing ships across the map that are in different systems.
 
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C Pudd
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I am going to take a different take on this from the others.

Most, if not all, of tbe units that can use Duranium Armor can also use bombardment at the start of the first ground combat round. Thus they are able to be active in tbe first combat round. This allows bombardment and the ability to use Sustain Damage to negate a PDS shot. Why wouldnt they get to repair via Duranium Armor at thd end of tbe round?

there is no reason to disallow DA at this point. And the ztreamlined rules set of TI4 to reduce or negate corner cases supports this imo.
 
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Jeff S
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PotBellyNinja wrote:
I am going to take a different take on this from the others.

Most, if not all, of tbe units that can use Duranium Armor can also use bombardment at the start of the first ground combat round. Thus they are able to be active in tbe first combat round. This allows bombardment and the ability to use Sustain Damage to negate a PDS shot. Why wouldnt they get to repair via Duranium Armor at thd end of tbe round?

there is no reason to disallow DA at this point. And the ztreamlined rules set of TI4 to reduce or negate corner cases supports this imo.


No, bombardment is not at the start of a combat round, it is step 1 of Invasion; combat rounds are in step 4. You can even have a bombardment that results in no combat at all - what you somehow think of streamlining and reducing corner cases would, in your interpretation, actually cause a corner case.
 
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John Doe
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From logic you could as well say, that ships that can repair after each combat round can as well repair after a combat and even a system activation, as the time between combat rounds is a lot shorter then the time until the next combat.

It is more a question of balance, and for that matter and since there are only ship units that can sustain damage you could as well say, that D.A repairs after each round of space combat.
 
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Riku Koskinen
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PotBellyNinja wrote:
I am going to take a different take on this from the others.

Most, if not all, of tbe units that can use Duranium Armor can also use bombardment at the start of the first ground combat round. Thus they are able to be active in tbe first combat round. This allows bombardment and the ability to use Sustain Damage to negate a PDS shot. Why wouldnt they get to repair via Duranium Armor at thd end of tbe round?

there is no reason to disallow DA at this point. And the ztreamlined rules set of TI4 to reduce or negate corner cases supports this imo.


Bombardment happens before ground combat, not during it (unlike anti-fighter barrage, which happens during space combat). PDS defense shots against invading troops cannot be negated by sustain damage ability of space ships. The rules reference clearly says that the PDS targets the ground forces committed to that planet.
 
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