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Next War: Poland» Forums » Rules

Subject: City and Urban - what's so special about urban? rss

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Jim F
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I am looking at the modifiers for combat into Suwalki. This is a city hex. As far as I can see this means that some modifiers that apply to urban terrain do not apply to cities.

In fact, from my reading of the rules, because Suwalki is a city in a flat hex the odds start in column 9, which gives the attackers a very advantageous starting point, (regardless of the 2 column shifts for being in a city). The defenders also do not benefit from the X2 strength they would get in urban terrain.

What is the difficulty of fighting in urban terrain that doesn't exist in a city? Not a criticism, I'm just genuinely puzzled.

Apologies if i have misread the rules and those in city hexes also get all the benefits of urban. It's been a long week at work and my brain is only working at about 65% (and it's not that great at 100%).

Any help appreciated.
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Ashiefan wrote:

I am looking at the modifiers for combat into Suwalki. This is a city hex. As far as I can see this means that some modifiers that apply to urban terrain do not apply to cities.

In fact, from my reading of the rules, because Suwalki is a city in a flat hex the odds start in column 9, which gives the attackers a very advantageous starting point, (regardless of the 2 column shifts for being in a city). The defenders also do not benefit from the X2 strength they would get in urban terrain.

What is the difficulty of fighting in urban terrain that doesn't exist in a city? Not a criticism, I'm just genuinely puzzled.

Apologies if i have misread the rules and those in city hexes also get all the benefits of urban. It's been a long week at work and my brain is only working at about 65% (and it's not that great at 100%).

Any help appreciated.


Battle of Grozny, especially New Year's Assault, might be a good example how perilous urban combat can be for regular, armored forces: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(1994%E2%80%9...)
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Jim F
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Thanks for taking the time to respond and for the link.

I'm familiar with Grozny, remember it well. My question was more why cities don't attract the same modifiers, especially as I assume cities in Poland have their fair share of urban sprawl.
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Dan Stueber
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Mitch would have to answer to know the exact reason but I believe it is regarding the population in each city/urban hex and also the physical size of the city/urban.

So a city probably has under a certain population and, when a hex grid is placed over it and the area around it, the physical size of the city is a particular size in relation to the size of the hex. An urban hex has a higher population and more urbanization covering more of the actual hex.
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Mitchell Land
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It's mostly a density thing. Urban areas are tailor made for defense whereas "cities" are a little more open.
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Well, you should just visit Poland then Which I very recomend, of course.

From what I understand (since I'm not a game author) cities that are considered urban are mostly covered with a blocks of flats centred around their old towns or centres, with a lot of modern buildings, rowhouses, skycrapers and so placed there. Cities that are "cities" on the maps, have mostly low buildings, with limited number of blocks, but the blocks are not the dominating parts of their architecture. For example, take the google maps and use a street view the compare:
Bygdoszcz (Urban hex)
Ciechocinek (city hex)
I think it will make everything clear.

Yes, i still wait for an augmented reality wargame on the google maps
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Robert Leonhard
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I'm no expert, but I've lived and served in the military in Europe, and I think there's a fairly noticeable difference between a smaller European city and a larger metropolis that I don't notice so much in the US. In Germany, for example, some towns and cities are very contained--that is, they are surrounded by distinctly marked off fields and woods, and the city never grows beyond its determined boundaries. In other areas--Nurnburg, Munich, Stuttgart, etc., these are huge urban areas that have no clear (well, to me) boundaries containing further growth.

As noted above, I think the urban areas are large, complex, built-up, densely populated areas, whereas the cities are smaller, contained, easily surrounded, and less densely populated.
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Jim F
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I have it in mind to visit Polaxnd one day

I think this is a design decision that I am going to have to respectfully disagree with.

However, the series is an excellent one, so thank you for it.
 
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Ok, so here's the visual comparison of the urban hex, city and town from my local area. Hope it'll resolve all the problems for good:
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Andrew Gudgeon
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Yeah, I thought Mitch had got this rule the wrong way round since NW:K. I'd have thought a city would be a lot harder to take that the surrounding towns/inner-city areas (which is what an urban area is to us Brits')?

Andy
 
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Brian Hard
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I would say the game has the model of urban/city defense pretty spot on. I suspect any defender in a region that has higher elevated buildings for increased reconnaissance, LOS and the advantage of denser building structure grids/side streets is going to hamper any attempt by an invading force versus a city sprawl of less dense structures and lower average building heights. I can see the argument where some cities have an advantage of one main access route that could be more easily defensible than a major city with multiple ramp/tunnel accesses but any sharp/prepared defense would do what they could to sabotage those avenues.

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