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Subject: Rule 16 after game 3 rss

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Just finished game 3, 4 player game
Spoiler (click to reveal)

After finishing our 3rd game, 2 of the 4 players in the game are feeling salty. Before realizing the path to unlocking their minions, they discarded those buildings at the end of game 2. As a result, in Game 3, myself and another player each had a minion, and we both took our time building our minion buildings (limiting access to those players). Then, throughout the game, the Advancement deck had about 50 cards added to it... The players are feeling like their minion cards are lost in the deck, and their charter is suffering as a result. (their charters each had building no one every went to...)

I have a few questions:
Is there anyway they can get those buildings back later in the game, besides waiting for the card to come out? (Y/N question)

As the person running the index cards, am I able to give clues to the cards they are discarding? I feel like I have an advantage playing because there is a pattern to how the index is laid out, so it is easy to see when some buildings unlock new things. For example, the Tuckbox column is a big tip off...

Part of me thinks they should get those building back into their supply because I knew that information, and they didnt... Which I think makes me feel like I cheated in retrospect... At the time I didnt give it much thought until game 3, when I realized I had information that wasnt shared....

Any idea if this all needs to be corrected? I dont want the campaign to continue if we are putting 2 players at a disadvantage...

 
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Jamey Stegmaier
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The person running the Index should kind of do it mindlessly--you shouldn't be examining the Index for clues as to what things unlock.

Even though the other players don't have access to their own minions, they still have access to minions in general through your building and through the glory bonus. Also, in not keeping those buildings, they must have kept other things that gave them other advantages--the game isn't all about minions.

Technically there is no other way to get their minion buildings back until they show up on the advancement deck. But if you sense that they're going to let that one decision impact the fun they have playing Charterstone, you could allow them to swap one advancement card in their personal supply for a building of their choice from the deck. This is simply to appease their saltiness.
 
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Joao Rodrigues
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I'll reply in spoilers just to maintain the theme of the thread:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Looks like you guys are misplaying something. All the talk about "their" minnions and "our" minions... there is no such thing. Everyone can get any minion. Remember, there is absolutely no restriction as to use of a building. Once you built a building that gives minion in your charter, everyone can use that building in order to get that minion as well.

As for having buildings that no one else is going to, this is not a real disadvantage, although it is a sign that these players need to pay more attention to how people are playing and what they want to achieve in order to build the right thing. Game is long, you are only finishing game 3 there is 9 more to go, that is a lot of time to addapt and keep up with the game and other players.

The answers for your questions:
1) No, they can't get these specific cards directly, they have to wait for the cards to come out. At least at this moment I don't recal any kind of card or ability that allows players to search for a card in a deck.

2) No, you can't give clues to other players, as you also shouldn't keep looking to more things than needed to grab the cards in order to have better information than others. This is just common sense and good gaming behaviour.

3) I'm a strong believer that once you get a game, the game is yours and you can twist and shake the rules as you want. If you and the group strongly agrees that they could get these cards back, than you can. However I really feel it goes against the "legacy aspect" of the game. The great thing about Legacy games is that each game is unique and each board finished board is a proof of a shared experience between you and your friends. This fact of them discarding those buildings is part of the history of your own world creation. I believe the greatest thing about Legacy games is the fact that you should learn with your previous actions and addapt for the future, without turning back. But that is just me.

As you noticed so far, I don't believe there is any need to correct any of that. There is no real disadvantage for any player and it is all part of your history. Only thing I would ask you to correct is for you to try to not read cards ahead, or try to understand what is comming from each box before they are oppened.
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Johnnymaxx wrote:
I'll reply in spoilers just to maintain the theme of the thread:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Looks like you guys are misplaying something. All the talk about "their" minnions and "our" minions... there is no such thing. Everyone can get any minion. Remember, there is absolutely no restriction as to use of a building. Once you built a building that gives minion in your charter, everyone can use that building in order to get that minion as well.

As for having buildings that no one else is going to, this is not a real disadvantage, although it is a sign that these players need to pay more attention to how people are playing and what they want to achieve in order to build the right thing. Game is long, you are only finishing game 3 there is 9 more to go, that is a lot of time to addapt and keep up with the game and other players.

The answers for your questions:
1) No, they can't get these specific cards directly, they have to wait for the cards to come out. At least at this moment I don't recal any kind of card or ability that allows players to search for a card in a deck.

2) No, you can't give clues to other players, as you also shouldn't keep looking to more things than needed to grab the cards in order to have better information than others. This is just common sense and good gaming behaviour.

3) I'm a strong believer that once you get a game, the game is yours and you can twist and shake the rules as you want. If you and the group strongly agrees that they could get these cards back, than you can. However I really feel it goes against the "legacy aspect" of the game. The great thing about Legacy games is that each game is unique and each board finished board is a proof of a shared experience between you and your friends. This fact of them discarding those buildings is part of the history of your own world creation. I believe the greatest thing about Legacy games is the fact that you should learn with your previous actions and addapt for the future, without turning back. But that is just me.

As you noticed so far, I don't believe there is any need to correct any of that. There is no real disadvantage for any player and it is all part of your history. Only thing I would ask you to correct is for you to try to not read cards ahead, or try to understand what is comming from each box before they are opened.


I realize that... honestly I wasnt doing it on purpose. While looking up other/pulling cards for people's unlocking crates, it was hard not to notice when I had a crate a few numbers off and see a mark in the second or last column. It was not until after the game that I occurred to me I might have had a slight advantage.

Spoiler (click to reveal)

The main reason players were salty was because myself and another player had minions in game 2 and half of game 3 before the buildings were built that they could then gain access to them. So we had to use less turns to pull back our guys. I think this was a game 3 issue only, now that we each built our minion building... I think next game will be better, everyone had a minion to carry over.

The other player almost built over his minion building, but the table collectively gasped and yelled at the same time, before the sticker touched the board. I think he was bullied into changing his mind... LOL.

Thank you for the answers, I appreciate it! : )
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Chris
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Its only 1 game they had a disadvantage. Sorry you cant be salty after one bad game or you are just being a sore loser. When you lose a game you get extra capacity so it evens out in the long run. The only way i can see where losing is bad is if you consistently dont score victory points/ stars and your opponents are scoring a lot.
 
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Brent Wilson
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Trigonomical, I feel for your "salty" players. My campaign is in a similar situation where the advancement deck is huge and my charter is poorly constructed and the inactive charters are building all the unbuilt buildings at the start of every game (except the ONE that I carried forward). My wife as a tight engine for robot-ing through the deck and scoring all the points she wants mostly using her own buildings while I struggle to snatch crates that might improve my situation. I don't have enough useful buildings in my charter to make use of many robots and need to use my regular workers to fetch stuff from all over the board. In any given game, I have to build something, then get a crate and open it hoping for something useful and then build that if possible. She's crushing me.

I'm still having lots of fun. But I'm starting to wonder if my best course of action is to cheat with the index like you were talking about.

Have things gotten better? Did you salty players recover?
 
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